Apple Music via USB to Rossini APEX

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

I am also on 18.3.2

[Anupc (Anup)]

@jacobacci

I am wondering whether something has changed due to the APEX and firmware upgrade to my Rossini?

Actually, it’s far more likely that something has changed on Apple’s side; they’ve had far more firmware updates to all aspects of iOS including their Lightning & USB-C ports. I doubt dCS has changed anything firmware-wise on their USB port support in a long time (it’s probably the least used input port type among dCS owners).

That said, since Apple removed headphone sockets on their i-devices, support for external DACs have improved, not worsened. So, I’m really curious why you seem to be having difficulty using an iPhone or iPad with your Rossini (I’ll test out my iPhone 16 Pro on my Bartok when I get a chance and see)

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

Thanks @Anupc
I am also curious why only the Rossini is showing the issue. Looking forward to your results. Hope that will give some clarity.
As I linked above, it could well be an Apple issue

Apple Music via USB to Rossini APEX

Interesting, there seems to be an issue with iOS 18. I wonder whether anyone else has experienced this. Strange though that my SMSL m500 mk3 is not affected at all and works without issues. Why is my external DAC not working with i… - Apple Community

[Anupc (Anup)]

Found some time to check this out. There’s definitely something dodgy going wrong with Apple iOS. I used a simple straight USB Type A to USB Type B cable (Acoustic Revive) with a full USB-Type A to Type-C adapter.

• With my MacBook Pro and Bartók: Works with no issue at all.
• With iPhone 16 Pro and Bartók:
  • Bartók in USB Class 2 doesn’t work: No Audio output although the Bartók appears to be receiving the bit stream
  • Bartók in USB Class 1 works just fine
• With my Google Android Phone: Works perfectly in USB Class2 on the Bartók

I even did a “Forget All USB devices” on the iPhone: Settings → Sounds & Haptics → Headphone Safety → USB Audio Accessories → “Forget All USB Audio Accessories”, and attached the Bartók freshly. No luck.

Definitely looks like a problem with Apple iOS (18.3.2).

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

Thanks a lot for checking @Anupc
Keeping my fingers crossed that apple will fix this

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

Do you know for certain that it worked previously?

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

Not @Anupc here. I reported streaming from a lightning iPad to my Rossini as working a while back

Apple Music lossless & high-res streaming - how will it be handled?

I have just made painful contact with a major point of the Darko article mentioned by @Ermos a few posts up. I streamed a CD Samplerate recording to my Rossini via USB and didn’t notice that the Midi Settings of the MacBook Air were on 48kHz. Just garbled Audio - until I switched to 44.1. Now it sounds ok. Given you have to switch Samplerates manually, one would think Apple would indicate the album’s samplerate very visibly somewhere. Either I am blind or they don’t… Am I missing something her…

[Anupc (Anup)]

It certainly worked with Lightning-connector based Apple i-Devices without any difficulty (other than physical interface conversion). But with USB-C based i-Devices, I can’t recall really testing it out as such till now.

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

No, me either. It seems however from looking at the Apple Support site that this is starting to get reported by USB headphone users of whom there are many, so hopefully Apple will come up with a fix soon.

[Phil (Phil Harris)]

Hi @jacobacci

@jacobacci

Let me summarize the situation as I understand it.

• dCS DACs are USB Class 1 and 2 compliant
• For full compatibility with Apple devices, MFI certification is needed
• dCS DACs are not MFI certified

MFI Certification is something that Apple put in place about 15 years ago (IIRC on my timings, it was a long time ago that I went through all this with product certifications) and is something that is no longer supported by Apple.

Bartok, Rossini and Vivaldi ARE ALL MFI certified because at the time that they were developed then that certification was still “live” with Apple. Rossini and Vivaldi still have the MFI certification shown in the manuals, Bartok doesn’t as that manual is produced differently and is more of a live manual that can be easily changed and so has had the certification removed as the certification is no longer valid but it still supports the requirements of MFI - Lina would be MFI certified but Apple do not perform MFI certification any longer so we would be unable to have Lina MFI certified.

MFI certification was depreciated in favour of Airplay Certification and as such Lina, Bartok, Rossini and Vivaldi all support Airplay which was the requirement for Apple AFTER MFI was depreciated.

As I have said previously - the use of iPads and iPhones with external USB DACs is something that Apple have NEVER OFFICIALLY supported - it was just found to work in conjunction with the Apple Camera Connector.

Apple have never confirmed that it is supported (that doesn’t mean they haven’t said it doesn’t work, just that it isn’t supported) and given that in the Apple ecosystem they want everyone to use Airplay then it is unlikely that they will add or even update support for it so that the comparatively small number of people that want to tether headphones to their iOS devices via a USB DAC (or use their iOS devices with an external DAC) can do so.

Android happily supports the use of USB attached DACs …

Phil

[PAR (Pete)]

@Phil

given that in the Apple ecosystem they want everyone to use Airplay

So, Apple introduces high-es replay but wants its use via a technology limited to 48K and one that is often lossy ( Airplay 2). Joined up thinking?

[Phil (Phil Harris)]

Hi @PAR

Fortunately it’s not my place to try to justify or rationalise Apple’s intentions - all I can do is report the changing requirements for Apple in their certifications on products since I was first involved (to any degree) with kit that required Apple Certification since 2010.

Cheers

Phil

[Anupc (Anup)]

@Phil

As I have said previously - the use of iPads and iPhones with external USB DACs is something that Apple have NEVER OFFICIALLY supported - it was just found to work in conjunction with the Apple Camera Connector.

Phil, I’m not sure [that] is the case actually. Apple continues to sell and support its own USB-C-to-TRS Headphone Jack dongle; which is really a mini USB DAC/Amp in a dongle.

Buy USB-C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter

Also, I very regularly use a Zorloo Ztella USB DAC dongle with my custom IEMs and iPhone 16 Pro when I travel (replaced my bulky Chord Mojo). Again, this is an external USB DAC/Amp in a dongle (in this case ESS chip-based one).

So, no, I don’t think Apple has in any way depreciated its support for USB devices (DAC or otherwise) on their i-Devices. I think it’s just a persistent bug of some sort.

[Phil (Phil Harris)]

Hi Anup,

I had assumed that they were supplying that for their laptops but I see they show it with an iPad … in which case I stand corrected in the case of their USB C equipped devices.

I know that there have been calls for support for USB C support for external DACs on iPhones or iPads from the headphone fraternity for a long time so I had assumed that the unofficial support that there had been on lightning iOS had just been dropped on the USB C iOS devices but obviously not and it seems that for the USB C devices they ADDED USB audio support which - as you have said - seems to be somewhat buggy …

Anyway, we don’t cripple or modify our USB Audio support on our devices to stop them working with iOS phones or tablets …

Cheers

P

[Anupc (Anup)]

@Phil

I had assumed that they were supplying that for their laptops

All their Laptops still have a 3.5mm analog TRS jack port actually, including their brand new M4 models.

So, those Apple USB-C TRS Jack dongles are purely for their i-Devices. In fact, those dongles were first released (Lightning interface model) when Apple removed the analog TRS port on the iPhones, and they subsequently updated those dongles to a USB-C interface.

(There were debates on some audiophile forums on how good or bad the DAC-chip on those $9 dongles are compared to other portable DACs like the Chord Mojo )

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

I am keeping my fingers crossed that with iOS 18.4 (which introduces USB-C wired connectivity for the Airpods Max) the problem will be fixed.

[aublumberg (Andre Blumberg)]

@jacobacci

There is anecdotal evidence from @aublumberg that going from iPad to Bartok works

[IMG_0299] After some trial with various devices, I settled on my iPad Pro with split screen view and a USB-C to USB-B connection into the Bartok. Works for now, but of course would prefer a Mosaic native integration.

Hello Rudi, it’s been a long time since I used this (above post from mid 2021). So just now I tried again, same USB-B (Bartok APEX) to USB-C (iPad and also iPhone) cable and it works. Both devices are already on 18.4 RC however and I don’t have an older iOS device to check.

Compared to nearly four years ago however when I sent 24 bit / 192 kHz it arrived as such but now for the same song it is played as 24 bit / 96 kHz.

[jacobacci (Rudi)]

Thanks @aublumberg
I will try again, when my iPad is updated to 18.4.

[glevethan (Gregg)]

" AirPlay 2 supports lossless audio streaming up to 24-bit/48kHz"

This is the specification for AirPlay 2 streaming. Am I correct, however, that in reality AirPlay 2 streaming wirelessly converts to 256k AAC - and as such an AirPlay 2 stream to our dCS DAC’s is not the same resolution as a 44.1/16 CD resolution file streamed from Qobuz?

[PAR (Pete)]

As I understand things the AirPlay 2 compression is to AAC 256k. However the stream’s resolution 44.1 or 48 or available bit depth is not changed, it’s the file content that is.

So the AirPlay 2 stream is not identical to the original. High - res is not supported of course.