They are likely both true, but the cynic in me would be thinking that the dealer is keenest to sell a Rossini Transport 
4 Likes
Ben, that is what I am thinking too 
Rossini is better than Bartok, period. Anyone who has experienced the change from using Map 2 ( the original ) to Map 1 or 3 with their either Rossini or Vivaldi should be aware of the material improvement that this alone brings irrespective of the other hardware and firmware advantages of those processors over Bartok. Map 1 or 3 are not available with Bartok.
Further whilst all of their products have superb sound, dCS have always ensured that there can be little doubt as to the sonic improvement to be enjoyed as you move rung by rung up the ladder of products.
So if your dealer thinks there is little difference in the sound between them I have no idea where his reference points are. Yes both are nearly identical if you simply put them in a generalised category of “very good sound”. However what constitutes " very good" is where the difference lies. Or maybe he only listens to Death Metal. Yep , little difference then ( I would imagine 
).
I think that I go along with @all2ofme and @Ermos comments that the dealer is probably rather keen to move his stock Rossini Transport on.
2 Likes
I will find out in a month or so how big the leap in SQ is from Bartók to Rossini DAC. Fingers crossed.
I am really looking forward to your comments.
2 Likes
The dealer said that separate units sound better than an integrated and that the Rossini transport sounds better than the Rossini player while playing cds. I understand that you guys don’t agree with his statement regarding comparability between Bartok and Rossini as dacs. The last element is that his option could give the possibility to upgrade to a Vivaldi dac or New Vivaldi dac without changing the cd transport. I’ll see what price he offers me. Thanks.
I would just remark on what I think is an important consideration. AFAIK there is no wordclock input on the Accuphase transport. Also no SACD replay in conjunction with a dCS processor ( if it is an Accuphase CD/SACD machine). So, for silver disc at least, this is not an optimum combination.
It’s up to you of course as I think that I have said all that I can on this subject.
1 Like
Sorry Pete for the confusion. Choice is between (i) Rossini Transport + Bartok + Rossini Clock with option to upgrade DAC in the future or (ii) Rossini Player + Rossini Clock. In each case I would trade in my current Accuphase CD transport.
Thanks for the clarification. As I said earlier a major consideration is whether or not you have an existing collection of SACDs which you still wish to enjoy. If not then you only need think about CD. In that case the Rossini Player trumps the Rossini Transport+ Bartok because the Rossini DAC is better. I am assuming that you do not solely play discs. The advantages of the Rossini DAC section will be apparent with other media such as streaming. No matter how superior Bartok Transport may be compared to the Player’s transport ( which I emphasise is excellent anyway), its advantage is wholly limited to playing discs and it offers no benefit otherwise. So rationally it is a better choice only if CD/SACD is your main music source and if you think it will remain as such for the next few years.
Yes the clock is a great addition in either case.
1 Like
Having upgraded from Bartok to Rossini DAC myself, I can vouch that there is a very audible improvement in sound quality and sheer enjoyment of music. How much of that is attributable to the new mappings vs other aspects I don’t know, and I’ve only ever used the units as streamers, not dacs for other sources.
4 Likes
I agree. The Rossini DAC is a significant step up in sound quality over the Bartok.
I’ll say it again, when I was shopping I was comparing sound quality to my Wadia S7i.
Bartok: Winner, Wadia.
Rossini Player: Winner, Wadia
Rossini Player with Rossini Clock: Winner: Rossini Player with Rossini Clocki
If the clock wasn’t in the circuit, neither the Rossini nor Bartok had the depth of soundstage nor the proper transients on piano notes that have always been a Wadia Digimaster trademark.
Only the Rossini Player with Rossini Clock finally exceeded the quality of the Wadia.
I’ll never get the TAS review where the reviewer preferred the sound of the RP without the clock, unless the reviewer has been listening to non-Wadia DACs for so long he doesn’t realize that the “attack” of a piano note should never be somewhat metallic-sounding, it’s a felt hammer hitting a string.
Every Wadia since the X32 got that right, and it took the RP and RC for the dCS to get it right (at about 1.5x the 2012 MSRP of the Wadia S7i.)
1 Like
Bill, have you considered that this is your opinion rather then a statement of fact ?
Others may well consider that, for them, other brands or equipment combinations " got it right" or were " winners". That, no doubt, includes the TAS reviewer.
I would be more impressed if you tempered your assertions with a humble " IMO".
3 Likes
(Wasn’t sure whether to post my recent (lengthy) waffle about my recent DAC and Clock comparisons to this thread or to a different one — Bartok with Rossini or Vivaldi clock? — since there was a bit of overlap. Chose the other one because this thread was more about Rossini decisions, not “Should I get the sensibly-sized clock or the silly clock?” decisions. But it could be of interest to some of you here too.)
I agree with @BillK that clocking makes a big difference, and also with @PAR that we all have different things that we listen for…and that it can be good to be careful that we don’t paint the world in absolute terms that can stifle the discussions that can make forums a nice place to hang out.
The problem I normally have is that in trying to couch my preferences in a way that makes it clear that they’re just that — MY preferences — I get long-winded. As the post I wrote five minutes ago showed quite clearly…
Shutting up now
1 Like
There’s one part that actually isn’t just an opinion when it comes to piano notes.
I’m not talking about the clock’s effect on soundstage or realism, but of the initial attack of piano notes.
I heard it, the store staff heard it and three ~20 year-olds who had come into the store just to shop for LPs all heard the exact same effect.
Now if you like your piano note to sound like a metal hammer hitting a string, that’s opinion.
But you can’t say a real piano sounds like that, that’s fact.
The felt of a piano hammer has an initial softer attack than metal on metal, a sound that was only properly reproduced by the RP with the clock enabled as could be heard by turning the clock off and on.
2 Likes
Is it correct to state that the Rossini Transport+Rossini DAC (two units) and the Rossini Player (one unit) are identical, except that Rossini Transport can also play SACD (and is a different transport mechanism)? Thanks.
Franco, I think that you have answered your own question. Rossini Player is not identical to Rossini DAC + Rossini Transport because they have different transports. It may also be worth taking account of the fact that the Transport has its own dedicated power supply and also has its own upsampling capability. Some hold that upsampling closest to the source is preferable but this is an arguable point having regard to the Player’s simiiar upsampling. However some Rossini DAC + Rossini Transport owners may find it a useful feature . The fact that the Rossini Transport is housed in its own massive ( 21 Kg) chassis no doubt also plays its part. However then there’s the price differential 
.
However if you are asking if the DACs in Rossini DAC and Rossini Player are the same , yes they are.
1 Like
Thanks Peter. I’m still deciding between the two units (which are available at my dealer and for which I got a decent price offer) and the single unit. Issues that make me think are price (the two unit option is almost three times more expensive) and real estate (which I don’t have a lot in my current rack). On the other hand, I’m sure that the transport unit only is superior and I could upgrade the other unit to a next model.
I can only say that I have never had the opportunity to compare the Rossini Player to Rossini DAC + Transport playing silver discs. All I can say is that my Vivaldi + Rossini Transport offers sound beyond my most optimistic expectations. I was playing a couple of CDs and SACDs yesterday afternoon and was lost to the world 
.
As far as rack space is concerned the Transport is massive in both terms of weight and size. As I am only a small guy for me it’s a two man lift, at least if I don’t
want to risk sending everything else flying.
That is a sensible thought especially if the speculation in the “Vivaldi Replacement” thread is correct that the new model may not include a transport ( at least for the initial release). We shall no doubt find out in due course.
Of course justifying the expense would also turn upon how many SACDs you have and want to play.
2 Likes
Thanks Peter as always!