We’re talking about two different things. I completely agree about packets and SQ. Been saying that for years. So, please don’t keep restating what we agree on as though we don’t. But noise on an Ethernet line—to use the example of a shielded cable with one RJ45 plug terminated properly and the other not—is a completely different thing. And if it does get into the DAC, it is no longer the same as damaged Amazon packaging. We generally don’t store the box alongside the book on a shelf; not so with noise. You could easily be playing delightful music with zero dropouts but still have a noisy network that causes problems for a DAC not well designed to handle such problems. Galvanic isolation should solve for most of that, but repeated listening tests have demonstrated that it does not.solve for everything. These are two separate issues, and the Ethernet standards don’t necessarily solve for poor design/construction, cable choice, parasitic noise, etc. I’m not talking audiophilevoodoo here. I don’t believe in “audiophile” switches or “clocking Ethernet streams,” or any of that stuff. But I do know there are people who are intensely sensitive to a variety of cues in musical presentation. Some can tell the difference between silver disc and Ethernet into the same DAC, and others hear the opposite consistently (discussions like that over sr PSAudio led to significant improvements in both network and disc playback). When we hear such claims, asking why seems to me a far more worthwhile endeavor than stating things like “I’m an expert and I can tell you that will have 0% effect 100% of the time.” All things being equal, I am inclined to agree with you. But sometimes, what people hear indicates that not all things are actually equal. Perhaps for Jon, it might be as simple as cheap Netgear vs. expensive EtherREGEN. Or maybe it is, as @Anupc suggested, worth checking the Netgear IGMP snooping settings. That would not indicate a fault in Ethernet, just the way the switch is configured being suboptimal for Mosaic. Such listening and openness can lead to significant improvements in our experience. But Jon repeatedly reports that his system sounds better with the ER than the NG. Rather than flatly saying (without hearing) “not possible,” might collective expertise be even more valuable walking through possible explanations?
Interestingly, it was a GigaFoil that alerted me to a problem with a cable running to the DAC before my Vivaldi. With the GigaFoil, my wife noticed an improvement in what she characterized as “depth” in the music. This led me to discover that I had a sloppily constructed cable. Swap the cable, and poof, problem solved. Between the cable and the DAC, something was getting in that shouldn’t. Once a proper cable was inserted, the GigaFoil became unnecessary.
I am of the mind that most noise that can ride an Ethernet line is probably inaudible. But there may be people who can prove us wrong on that. I’d like to think that, no matter how well designed Ethernet is and how well we think we know it, that there might yet be more to learn.
I understand what you say, and indeed I was only focusing on the actual content received. If you say that actual noise can make it past the network interface, and past the many isolation boundaries within the dCS unit (or stack) itself, then I don’t know what to say other than hey, who am I to judge what people spend their money on. I’ve also read rave reviews of stones placed on top of units that dramatically expand air and detail, so what do I know, other than I guess it’s time for me to respectfully bow out of this thread.
Thank you ALL for your informed thinking. The Michael Lavorgna link was interesting as well. As so many have said, I guess it all comes down to the listener. After all, it’s his/her money and happiness.
As behavioral economic research has shown over and over, we are all - somewhat unfortunately - irrational at times and often even predictably irrational! I like to say that I bow to the temple of logic, but even I know that logic isn’t always the answer or even always correct or even appropriate. Sigh.
Very helpful info here. I won’t speak to the ethernet connection, but it’s amazing how misinformed many people are about other types of digital connections. Most somehow think that 1s and 0s are actually sent down a cable, which is of course impossible. Instead, depending on the connection, there is an analog wave and noise.
In a typical DAC, the bit stream that flows to the DAC conversion stage is usually I²S protocol based (once all the error-corrected TCP streams are unwrapped).
He’s showing a signal digram that looks like this;
Well my BJC cables are on the way and I have a Farad Super 3 linear PSU to clean up my power as well. Hopefully i can experiment some more over the coming weeks and report back.
Very eloquent and accurate.
I will share my travails with Ethernet ( Cables and Switches) so that at least some forum members can avoid the same pitfalls.
Ethernet Cables:
a. Ordered a JCAT ethernet cable from Poland after reading Jay Luong’s glowing review on Audio Bacon. After taking my payment there was complete silence and no cable. Only when I complained to PayPal the JCAT owner paid attention. He then shipped the cable to the wrong address. I finally received the cable. It is short and very “beautiful”. The SQ is excellent but does not make up for the poor customer service, t he short length, and the cost= 1300 or so in US
b. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet: Bought used. Also a terrific cable. No complaints, $750 used.
c. SOtm dCBL-CAT7 Audiophile Ethernet Cable: Bought new. Prompt delivery. $500. Exceptional SQ- am going to keep this one!
d. Tellurium Q Ethernet: Bought used for $400. Very good but not exceptional
Plan to sell a, b and d.
Lesson learnt: All that “glitters in reviews” is nowhere near “Gold”.
SOtM dBCL cable at $500 is a fantastic value for the dCS Bartok.
Ethernet Switches:
a. Ether REGN from Uptone Audio: $660. Excellent but runs very hot. I sold mine.
b. Melco S-100: Available for $1980 from Underwood Hi Fi in the US. This is a very well made device. Sound quality is excellent. Is it worth $2000? We can debate that for ever.
c. Alternatives that I did not try, but may be worth trying would be one or two of the myriad offerings from Sonore. If anyone has experience with Sonore devices with dCS products, please share.
Hope the above helps…at least someone
Best
Rit
Sorry. Didn’t mean for you to repost in another thread. That’s not necessary. I was reposting Andrew’s advice about Ethernet cables. To me, it speaks to value.
