What makes 6v better than 2v

It seems to me this setting would just modify the ratio of gain between the dCS unit and the pre-amp, assuming your keep your final volume level the same.
It’s nice to have the option so you can choose to emphasize the voiceing of whichever component you you prefer, but it’s interesting that most people seem to prefer the higher voltage settings. Maybe the dCS components just sound better than most preamps? :slight_smile:

Hi!
I have:

Magico A5 as speakers
Dan D’Agostino Progression integrated amplifier
And the DCS Bartok

With the Bartok set on 6v especially when I listen to rock or in general with high volume my ears suffers a lot. The sound is piercing and really noisy. Hard to endure.

Then I recalled the voltage trick and I have set the Bartok on 2v. In the previous conditions seems much better. The sound more soft and not so noisy.

In general 6v seems better at low volume and 2v with high volume. With some exceptions according to the kind of music listened.

Does this make sense?
Or are just my impressions?

And someone can suggest me the more soft Bartok filters setup? That because I really would like to listen the Bartok in 6v (that I prefer) without having my ears wounded.

The subject title is “what makes 6V better then 2v”. The answer that it isn’t. Nor viewed in isolation and not in any way that can be subjectively heard. Noise is quoted as better than -113dB and measured (Vivaldi DAC) by Stereophile total noise and THD was a mere 0.00026% at 6V. Now although that figure may well increase slightly with 2V line voltage the amount is so small that it is inaudible. The -113dB noise specification I read as applicable overall. Again, inaudible in any normal circumstances.

So 2V v 6V is not a question of being better in any real sense but being preferable to you. So why? It is necessary not to look in isolation but to consider the interface between the DAC and amplifier i.e. input sensitivity. The input sensitivity quoted for your amplifier is not a figure out of the air but is an input voltage that will provide a certain level of THD. That level is probably chosen to reflect best circumstanced by the manufacturer.However if exceed the level of THD increases. This may be prefered for some reason. Indeed I can imagine some genres of music where additional distortion if not too great may be subjectively preferable especially if distortion was used in the first place e.g. overdrive in rock guitar amplification.

In some cases additional distortion may become too much io a “good thing” and that may be why :

Finally I must warn against tpo loud listening on headphones. you risk permanent damage to your hearing as well as discomfort.

https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/deafness-and-hearing-loss-safe-listening

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Thanks Pete.
So in the end they are the same.
And it is only suggestion.
So I have understand

I don’t use headphones

Sorry, I misread.

@Urbanluthier

(Pulled this off the “Show system” thread into where it should probably be)

Not being able to tell the difference was, I’m sure, dCS’ goal. So, it’s a good thing. That said, I can understand the urge to know which one measures better objectively in your system.

I agree with Pete’s point (in the other thread and here), that the Signal-to-Noise ratio differences is unlikely to be the main cause for any sonic difference as the noise floor in all cases are so low it’s mostly beyond normal hearing.

That said, the reason I took a brief look at the difference in dynamics was precisely because thats what I felt I was hearing as the difference, not so much any lowered resolution (from an increased digital volume attenuation or anything).

I think it’s a very interesting question that warrants a proper measurement, but it’s mostly an academic one; case in point, I still occasionally change the voltage depending on what I’m listening to, to suit my subjective preference at the moment :grin:

Based on information provided by Pete in another thread, Hi-Fi News recorded measurements of 109.1 dB at 2V and 117.0 dB at 6V. These results indicate that a higher output voltage correlates with an improved signal-to-noise ratio. It is my understanding that these measurements were taken with the volume control set at 0 dB. Altering the volume setting could likely yield different outcomes.

In my hypothesis, I posit that both the digital volume level and output voltage significantly influence the results. (1) digital volume control is more effective in preserving the resolution and dynamic range of a digital signal at higher volume levels, and (2) an increased output voltage might enhance the interaction with the amplifier, thereby improving both the signal-to-noise ratio and, potentially, the amplifier’s overall performance.

The degradation of SQ with upsampled ALAC at 6V is much more noticeable than at 2V. 6V lifts the Lina with the Utopia and bit-perfect ALAC to a whole new level.

Precisely, an academic issue (but it would be nice to know!) - i don’t loose any sleep over this and like you, I generally adjust my Bartok’s voltage output based on programme material so I’m between -10dB and 0dB. Subjectively I feel the 2V is more dynamic, but then again the recordings i listen to at the higher 2V voltage output; have greater dynamic swings (perhaps as much as 60dB), While listening to chamber music with .2V out a 0dB may only swing 15dB.

So I agree, in virtually all use cases SINAD is irrelevant. Which leads me to wonder why on earth is so much emphasis placed on a measurement where most DACs perform better than our hearing?

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Donald, if you weren’t aware, there’s actually no such thing as “upsampled ALAC”.

Regardless of the codec, all streaming gets decoded right on the S800 board, buffered, and then synchronously clocked-out as I²S PCM. This is exactly the same on all dCS platforms, including Lina.

It is this I²S signal which is then fed to the FPGAs for digital signal processing such as PCM Upsampling, DSD/DoP decoding/filtering, digital volume control etc. etc., and then to the D-to-A conversion stage.

In other words, as far as dCS’ digital signal processing is concerned, there’s absolutely no difference between ALAC and FLAC and WAV.

I completely agree; knowing the SINAD figures for any particular platform independently is not of much use at all. But it’s a pretty good “quick” metric for comparison between platforms, as an indicator of how well one is engineered versus another.

And for manufacturers who choose to make specific design choices that compromise their objective measurements negatively, well, thats their choice and risk (brings to mind PS Audio’s mark-II version of the DirectStream DAC which measures significantly worse than the 6-year old original :laughing:)

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant the upsampling that a Mac does with ALAC. I actually use Apple Music and connect a MacBook via USB to the Lina DAC. I love the upsampling to DSDx2. I discovered LosslessSwitcher now which automatically ensures that bit-perfect ALAC is transmitted from the MacBook to the Lina DAC. 6V is very revealing how much SQ is degraded when Apple Music converts a 44.1 kHz file to 96 kHz. At 2V I somehow preferred upsampled 96 kHz to be fed into the Lina because it sounded cleaner when I turned up the volume. But there was so much detail missing I discovered later with 6V.

I had a similar experience with 6V vs 2V. This was a blind test inasmuch as it was completely unintended and so totally unconscious. T heard it directly, I didn’t because we started the session playing for me totally unfamiliar material. But it was (in the context of system changes at this level) night-and-day. We all vastly preferred 6V to 2V at the same listening levels (to your point) despite the fact that this was not the best theoretical match for the input sensitivity of my amp. So I am very firmly in the “6V camp” (at least in my current set-up). To those who have chosen output level based on specs all I can say is compare them with your own ears and then decide!

I just connected the Mosaic app to the Lina DAC and used the Lina streamer with Tidal. Try “Careless Whisper” by Disco Gang the Acapella Version with 2V and 6V. With the Utopia no chills at 2V, chills at 6V. 6V rules.

I posed a question to Perplexity on this topic. The answer does not match my experience with the Utopia22 at all. The Utopia loves 6V from the Lina DAC to the Lina HeadAmp and from the Lina DAC to the Violectric V590 Mk2 PRO, which I also tried. Both amps sound better with 6V. The unbuffered XLR inputs on the Lina HeadAmp make the difference between 2V and 6V even more pronouncedly in favor of 6V with the track mentioned in my previous post.