I think analog analogy is incomplete, it doesn’t sound like my TT. Both have good and better points. I think Apex sound more musical and relaxed than the standart version. I called this analogue but I did not mean it sounds like vinly or R2R, sorry my mistake.
Can you give a few suggestions?
What I have found is digital ALWAYS sounds difference from analog. What I look for is a sound that connects me with the music, that makes me not want to skip to the next track.
2 Likes
I agree that because live is analogue, it does not mean that vinyl is better because it too is analogue.
Vinyl has terrible drawbacks, such that many prefer digital. Fair enough. And in the end it is about the enjoyment of listening.
But for a classical music aficionado like me, digital remained an unfortunate medium for a very long time. It seemed incapable of conveying emotional content the way vinyl (and live) does.
I have numerous (digital!) recordings in both sacd and vinyl format. Time and again, vinyl prevailed, almost embarrassingly.
Until… a couple of years ago I started investigating vibration/ resonance (v/r), thanks to the late Max Townshend pioneering work (what an excellent character he was!). I was amazed to discover how sensitive digital is to the phenomenum. Vinyl is too, but to a much lesser degree. Max had a pretty good idea why that was so. A lot of the “grit/ glassiness/ flatness” of digital boils down to v/r. The combination Nordost Kones/Acapella base is the best I achieved to date in my quest to supress v/r. Kones seem to drain resonance from the equipment into the sound sink of Acapella, which is itself almost immune to vibration traveling up from the floor (I posted a pic of this setup elsewhere in this forum).
Finally, Apex added much needed air and depth to digital recordings. But it is only when experimenting with Qpoints that I finally achieved the flow and emotional live-like content of vinyl.
And of course sacd is enjoying a classical music renaissance spurred on by boutique recording compagnies like Ars, Bis, Channel Classics, Challenge, Pentatone, TRPTK. The latter’s latest 64 bit sacds are stunning from a recording quality point of view.
Long and short: pay attention to v/r and the reward when applied to digital playback is disproportionate to the resources invested. In a lot of comments I read in these pages, the issue is not tweaking settings, but combatting v/r.
1 Like
Surely they will. The digital section in Rossini and Vivaldi has not changed at all with Apex, so there’s no reason dCS will not support these products.
1 Like
Strangly the sortcones add a resonance of their own to the equipment placed on it. There was a review/test a few years ago in a german magazine, I will see if I can find that again.
not the greatest quality but the link to the site is not working anymore, but the graphs are clear enough to see that most of the devices have some damping of vibrations, the Sort Kones add a resonance.
2 Likes
Interesting. Every foot is a form of spring with dissipation. It can be under-damped, critically damped, or over-damped. Under means it bounces up and down like an LP12 turntable plinth. Critical means it “almost” bounces but stops after the first oscillation give or take, and over is essentially a dissipator not a spring. The Nordost cones are hard and effectively work like under-damped.
One important feature of all of these methods, aside from isolation, is that they touch the base of the units in places that break resonances in the chassis. For this reason, placing feet in asymmetrical arrangements is actually a good idea. Other than that, it is the effect of pulling energy away from the component via either transmitting it away better (hard to do) or dissipating it via dampening.
I think assymetrical feet placement is often overlooked. And I would think more important the harder the foot.
In the end if it makes a positive difference SQ wise it’s ok, this test is looking for the vibrations going up to the equipment, but what about the vibrations coming from the equipment itself as you mentioned.
Thinking a bit further, the isolation for a transport or DAC is probably very different to achieve a good result.
I started my v/r investigations by using HRS damping plates: very effective at reducing digital “scratch/ glassiness”; dCS was using a complete HRS set-up in its demo-room when I visited 5 years ago.
In my secondary system, I still use Townshend platforms to support my Naim/Devialet equipment in combination with HRS feet/ damping plates.
In my primary system, my speakers stand on Townshend platforms.
I discovered ACapella platforms/ bases years later.
I personally prefer the ACapella presentation to the Townshend one. I admit it is a matter of taste. Both represent a huge improvement above placing equipment on normal shelves/ furniture/ stone slabs/ floor spikes (speakers!) etc…
But the revelation came by combining Nordost Kones with ACapella platforms. Nordost claims its Kones act as diodes: vibrations leave the equipment, but cannot enter it. Even my massive Clearaudio Master Innovation/ Olymp record player benefits hugely from the ACapella/ Kones treatment.
Everything in my primary system is “suspended”, even the cables (on cable “elevators”).
Hearing is well, uh hearing.
Someone mentioned GrandPrix audio racks. I have enormous respect for the company (not supported where I live).
My recommendation: experiment and trust your ears! At the quality level of dCS equipment everything becomes clearly audible.
And since I was vilified for daring to suggest that Qpoints make a significant difference, I will now infuriate many forum readers by sharing 2 extra simple and ultra cheap tweaks which propel cd/sacd to another level:
- At first use, wipe your cds with Furutech Alpha antistatic; effect is dramatic (time: 2min; cost abt euro 0.25/disc)
- Before every use treat your cd to Acoustic Revive RIO5-Ii tourmaline gobbledegook; the more, the merrier (I settled for 4 times: time: 4x15s, cost euro 0.25/disc over lifetime of the… fan?)
How I could have lived all these years without these two tweaks, I honestly do not know.
Have fun!
The graph shows the sort kone is not working like a diode, as there is a frequency spike measured on the board on top of the kones.
But it could well be that this gives a positive outcome on the equipment you have. But your way of trying different types of resonance devices is the best way imo, that way you get the flavour you want.
Exactly. Keep an open mind. Experiment! This is also the point of these forums. Exchange lived experiences. Especially if they allow users to try out at very little financial expense (a dealer should be able to loan).
Also, I know that manufacturers glance at the forums. Since v/r seems to have such a profound effect on sound, they might take these electromagnetic/mechanical issues on board to improve their designs (including battery power to avoid the cost of high-end power cords: dCS, what do you say?).
Regarding measurements in audio, I remain sceptical. The measurement protocol might be flawed too (see f.i. dCS on Apex)!
I read somewhere that Nordost’s v/r gimmickery was developed by Danish engineers who also consulted with Raidho before launching their own brand (Ansuz). Ansuz supports are probably even “better”? They are certainly extraordinarily expensive at their “apex”. I would love to try out. Unfortunately no way of receiving on loan.
A few more words on Kones: at Bartok/ Vivaldi level only titanium ones (TC) will do. The number is critical: obviously 3 is the minimum but also seems to be the maximum. And inexplicably, placement is critical: 1 in front, 2 at the back.
Rather than upgrading to the next equipment level, investing in good foundation (power/ bases) yields dramatically better results and lasts forever.
Finally, just try out my euro 0.25/cd tweaks. Nothing to loose! (And yes, I tried out Audio Revive’s cd demag and Hermann resonator; the former was underwhelming both in stand-alone or in combination with the RIO, the latter made things much worse! - incompatibility with my electrostatic loudspeakers?).
I am using the Ansuz Darkz under my gear, I like what they do and they look good, but they are very expensive. (I was lucky to buy a few demo DTC’s from my dealer at a nice price)
@James Other than a listening comparison, is there a preamp specification that would indicate the optimum Rossini output setting of either 2V or 6V to ovoid overdriving the system?
Thanks,
Brian …
1 Like
@James In case it matters, my Rossini is connected to my Gryphon Pandora preamp via XLR cables.
1 Like
Hi Brian,
The indicated input sensitivity of your preamp is indicating the max V out of your Rossini, either 2V or 6V. To avoid having 2 preamps in a row - Rossini preamp and your Gryphon Pandora preamp - you need to set your Rossini to max volume 0.0 dB, and need to control your desired listening volume only through your preamp.
Unfortunately Gryphon does not reveal the input sensitivity of your Gryphon Pandora preamp on their spec list on their site. Maybe you can ask your dealer.
According to the Gryphon Pandora’s Owner’s Manual, the input sensitivity (“Input level Match”) is configurable - which probably explains why it’s not listed in the specification - to a maximum of “+8dB” (presumable dBV), which is 2.5V.
That configuration apparently has a default value of “0dB” which is unclear what that means for default input sensivity 
. Brain should definitely ask his Dealer’s advise or better still, contact Gryphon directly.
2 Likes
@Ermos I use the ‘input level match’ feature of the preamp so that the input sources (Rossini, turntable and CD transport) have an approx equal SPL. I’ll ask Gryphon what the input level sensitivity is when set to the default value of ‘0db’ and a few other settings.
Thanks for your help, Brian …
3 Likes
Sorry, I’ve been traveling a lot. Anyway, the TL;DR version of my emotional satisfaction with the Apex upgrade is that I am contemplating selling my MSB DAC and integrating my headphone system into my speaker system. That’s a big step, about which I have to think a lot. More to come.
7 Likes
wow !!! u plan to now sell ur MSB select dac ? So vivaldi apex is now far better than it in ur system/ears ?
Didn’t say it was “far better.” Just said it was satisfying enough to become my single unified playback system. And that of course is only IF I can integrate the two.
3 Likes