I would very much like this officially confirmed by dCS. @James @Phil ?
2 Likes
Seconded as well
1 Like
I suspect the best approach is to contact your dealer to ensure communication is properly shared. Then it may not be put into writing until the next release of either a new dCS APEX DAC manual or an updated version of the current one. That would spell out the differences between the older version of the DAC and the APEX version, as to āOutput Levelā, and when each option should be used. But thatās just me 
I doubt the manual has to change because of the APEX upgrade; itās always recommended the 2V setting to begin with when a preamplifier is used.
Dealers and 3rd parties are usually full of old audiophiles wivesā tales with no basis in fact. 
2 Likes
On that note, Anup, surely the maths around signal to noise ratio means the theoretically better measuring choice remains 6V, no?
(All other things being equal, of course, no overdriving pre or power amps into distortion etc.)
Yes, and it was discussed extensively during Covid lock-downs
2 Likes
Well thats interesting as i had a vivaldi apex dac on demo for the last few weeks and ran it at the 2V setting, started at 6V but found it very loud and i just preferred the way it sounded at 2V over the 6V.
My non apex rossini was always running 6V into my naim pre amp and after many swapping up and down, i found the 6V better.
Just like Dunc I settled on 6V with my Naim 552. Several other friends are doing the same.
Steve appears to be stating things have changed with APEX. I am willing to entertain this as I had a similar discussion with my dealer regarding mapping. When I purchased my Rossini I received an email from John Quick with explanations and recommendations of mapping and filter settings. My dealer explained these were determined via years of consensus built amongst various dealers and reps.
He told me I should experiment as APEX may result in a rethink of previously used mapping and filter preferences. I have not done any concrete experimentation however informally I have changed my filter preference since upgrading to APEX. It is possible the same may be true with the voltage setting. Any comment from dCS would be welcome as it would confirm or deny any measurable changes (as Ben alluded to) which may have occurred with APEX
2 Likes
Would you mind sharing John Quickās recommendations?
When I had the Bartok I found the 6v output definitely better. Having since upgraded to the Rossini APEX, I would say the 2v output is much improved. The 6v doesnāt now seem to offer much of an advantage.
Listened to the Halle recording of Wagnerās Parsifal over the weekend. It was recorded in Londonās Albert Hall - cavernous acoustic, sumptuous sound. The embodiment of āhere, time becomes spaceā - to quote a famous line from the libretto.
Anyway, with the Bartok, I would have used 6v as a matter of course for such a large scale piece. But I found 2v at least as good using Rossini APEX. I think it will become my new ānormalā setting.
In addition to my previous reply Sourav, Iād like to say that my limited time so far with the upgraded Vivaldi APEX DAC suggests a bit less of a noticeable difference between Mapper 1 and Mapper 3 than Iād previously experienced. Mapper 1 still seems to lend itself more to classical music while Mapper 3 finds a home in jazz and most popular music. Hard to put my finger on this one, however. The distance just seems to have narrowed.
I still seem to find filter 5 my favorite for the DAC when PCM or DSD is playing (I do upsample to 352 and 384). I donāt find particular variations in the filters for the Upsampler. But Iāll need to spend more time with all of the filters now that Iāve got the APEX set up using 2v output.
Would love to hear from others any judgments theyāve made on the many options.
1 Like
@stevebythebay I directly bought Rossini Apex Dac. I never had Rossini non Apex version.
However, I do also find less difference between Mapper 1 and Mapper 3. I now mostly use Mapper 1 after few days of experimenting.
For DSD I prefer filter 5. For DXD I change between Filter 5 and Filter 6.
I am using the dac for more than 4 months now.
Regards,
Sourav
Ahā¦I was not aware you are using the Rossini APEX. Iāve not used one. So Iām not familiar with the ways the filters operate. With the Vivaldi, there are filters in each of the DAC and Upsampler. Maybe the options differ a bit on the Rossini.
Our recommendation has not changed with APEX. We recommend that you set the Output Voltage setting to match the equipment that the DAC is connected to. We have found that a preamp generally wants 2V and a power amp wants 6V. Ensuring the gain for the system is set up correctly is of prime importance to avoid overdriving or clipping any part of the system (which could of course cause damage) however if you feel that a lower output voltage setting hits a sweet spot within your own system then that is perfectly valid.
11 Likes
Thanks James, that was, and now still is, clear.
I got my Apex upgrade on the first week of August.
It was factory reset, so new configurations.
First, I set my previous configuration to be able to compare.
I let it sounding for about 40/50 hours before listening.
I listen to mostly classical and acoustic music.
Whatās new:
More silence, sound is more natural and āanalogueā.
IMHO a major upgrade.
It is a Vivaldi One
My settings:
DSDx2 upsampling
PCM filter 2
DSD filter 5
Mapper 1
Output 2V
Vivaldi Clock: No dither
Addendum: Upgrade was performed at dCS headquarters.
1 Like
As a first time user of Rossini Apex (and Rossini Dac as such and first time dCS owner), what I found is both of the 2v and 6v outputs are mostly similar except that they give u different operating ranges of volume control in your preamp.
I use McIntosh c2300 (all tube) which does support up to 9V in balanced inputs mode. I connect the c2300 to 2 x Mc 275 McIntosh Power amps in mono block setup.
Initially I found 6V output to my preamp to be bit jarring at higher volume. But slowly over a period of time that went away.
At present this is what I get. With 2V the sound is always relaxed. I can keep on listening to music for hours. With 6V it is more punchy but creates some fatigue after few hours (say 2-3 hours) of listening.
Regards,
Sourav
1 Like
Maybe you can elaborate on your statement ā Ensuring the gain for the system is set up correctlyā. I have a Spectral SV preamp that does not provide for any such gain manipulation. It never displayed any problem with being overdriven or clipping, and did sound clearly better when the non-APEX Vivaldi DAC was set to 6v rather than 2v. Yet the system sounds substantially better now that the APEX upgraded unit is lowered from 6v to 2v. Seems there was a change in some aspect of the hardware that caused this.
It is all about matching the output voltage of the DAC to the input voltage, or input sensitivity, of your preamp or power amp.
Overdriving the input causes distortion and clipping, but underdriving will make you loose SNR and overall SQ. Thus, matching.