Completely agree. Varèse is a statement product intended to advance the state of the art. It is at a completely different size point (a doubling of box volume to the Varèse 5-pack from the corresponding Vivaldi 3-pack) and price point to Vivaldi, and for both these reasons I expect the number of customers who will be able to migrate will be very limited. If I am reading it correctly many folks here own Rossinis and not Vivaldis simply because they consider three boxes a box too many, and several have said that a one-box Vivaldi streamer (like a Vivaldi One but minus transport) would be an attractive package for them.
dCS has already stated that APEX was a “trickle down” from Varèse R&D work and there is no doubt more to come. Above all it sounds like Varèse introduces so many new paradigms (UI/UX, packaging etc.) that these will have to “bed in” before any firm decisions are made about the direction for the next generations of the current lines. And I expect dCS have their work cut out for them and that it will be a while before they can devote significant resources to a new product family.
I expect my Vivaldi stack to remain current for a good while longer and I am looking forward to seeing how it might continue to evolve. I suspect that Vivaldi and Rossini owners who are assuming their products have effectively become obsolete overnight are worrying unnecessarily. I agree that’s how many other manufacturers work but I don’t think it’s the way dCS works. Time will tell.
Joined one of the info sessions from dCS tonight, and they provided a few more details:
They are working on additional products based on the Varese architecture. They didn’t give details, but based on previous lineups this will likely start with Vivaldi, then Rossini, then Bartok. I think we can assume these are all still a couple years out
There will be upgrade paths from existing units to Varese. They specifically mentioned a way to use the mono DACs with a Vivaldi upsampler/clock or a way to use the Varese streamer/UI unit with a Vivaldi DAC. Nothing confirmed yet though.
They mentioned HDMI input cards for Varese
It will be possible to use the Varese Core and DACs without the clock or UI unit, but with some reduced functionality (If I heard correctly, they mentioned the streaming ‘connect’ apps are in the UI unit)
Imagine the calibre the rest of the system must have to pass through all that the Varese can deliver at the start of the chain (though the source content is the actual start).
But I appreciate seeing envelopes pushed. Over the years the new technologies and designs will pass down the chain.
I was on the first of today’s calls where this also came up. On that call David was pretty clear. As launched Varèse is envisaged as a complete system with only the clock as an option. Currently there are some functions that sit uniquely in the UI Module (he mentioned the UPnP renderer as one example). But he said that taking the system headless is absolutely a direction they could look at. This is where they need the experience of getting the first units out to dealers and customers and seeing how it is received, how folks use them and in which direction demand leads them, which he pointed out is not always the one they anticipated. He cited the example of the Network Bridge, released to add streaming functionality to the Scarlatti, but where the strongest take-up turned out to be from Vivaldi customers, something they hadn’t contemplated and which didn’t even work properly initially.
I think you meant UPnP Renderer, which is in the UI box not the Core, IIRC. I found that quite interesting considering the Ethernet interface is actually on the Core. David did mention they originally looked at incorporating a UPnP Server in the UI box, but decided against it.
So, going “headless” without the UI box would mean no UPnP rendering, so no ability to render local files. Which begs the question, what about the Roon end-point? Presumably it’s in the Core same as the Streaming services termination?
Quite correct, I mis-typed (now corrected above). Looking back at my notes he also mentioned the BlueTooth receiver and “one or two streaming services” as currently being hosted in the UI module but that these functions could theoretically be added to other boxes in the future.
David was not specific on that point. The only service we know for certain is Spotify which is apparently still managed by the StreamUnlimited Board. (All?) the others are now managed by dCS’s own streamer which is a new ground-up development. He mentioned that they haven’t published a full list of services yet as some are still awaiting certification. That would presumably include Roon which is notorious for their certification lead time. He also mentioned that they are targeting feature parity “at least” with current product but that MQA support will not be available at launch as there was no counterparty to work with during some of the critical development period.
I enjoyed the webinar even though the speech content suggested that some images of Varese were being shown ,however Teams would not show them to me.
David did sort of cover this in session 3. dCS are currently unable to give any details of (or even mention) third party applications until Varese has been certified by the providers. So answers will come later.
Maybe they’ll post the slides Pete. IIRC there wasn’t much that hasn’t already been published, and of that which hasn’t nothing earth shattering. I don’t think you missed much. The session was very informative but 99% of the value was in the talk track and the answers to questions.
I agree with you Gregg. I expect the decision makers and BOD at dCS worked closely with the engineering team to try to achieve 2 goals: 1. Re-establish dCS as the clear SOTA leader in digital front end gear bar none (as was long the case with Vivaldi), and 2. Do the very best possible job of ensuring Varese bridges to at least portions of the Vivaldi range, offering an upgrade path while keeping 1. as the top goal. Customer satisfaction and retention (CLV - customer lifetime value) are as important as new customer acquisition.
The other thing I would focus on executing if I were leading the company or on the BOD is introducing new trickle-down versions of Varese which will replace Rossini and Bartok ASAP. dCS track record on this suggests 2 - 3 years, I expect they will be in danger of losing significant market share in those price bands if it takes that long. dCS has much more viable competition these days than used to be the case, and that trend likely will continue. Given the news that the APEX upgrade board was derived from work on Varese, hopefully they are able to acheive that within a year or so.
That’s interesting, though perhaps not surprising given where StreamUnlimited are with their current modules. This wasn’t mentioned during the session I joined. No doubt there’s just TMI to cover within just an hour session
@James at some convenient point it would be good if you could briefly walk us through;
the full end-to-end signal flow and through each of the Varèse boxes. For example, from the Ethernet port, to UPnP render point, to Upsampling, to Filtering, Oversampling, Mapping, and final D-A conversion
and the bit rates and signal format at each of those stages, including across ACTUS
In the first session which I dialled in to, it was stated that Vivaldi has capability for up to DSD256. One presumes that will come with the next round of updates.
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