Not like many others here who have enjoyed their vivaldi stack during the last 12 years and the apex upgrade during the last 2 years, I just bought my boxes January this year despite I wanted to do that long time ago.
Actually a deal fell through back in 2019 when my order and full payment for the vivaldi transport and dac was refunded after several months due to commercial reasons and stock no longer became available from my contact.
I don’t know how many people out there are in a similar situation with a short time ownership of the vivaldi stack, but if the V/R/B lines will become extinct, that’s a huge disappointment for myself and other owners.
I can understand why msb select dac owners are so angry and frustrated when the new cascade released. Some owners paid well over 100k for the 3 boxes select dac over a year ago and now stuck with it.
But as said earlier, we’ll need to see how dcs deals with this. I hope an upgrade path will be available for current V/R/B owners, but whatever happens I’ll stick with my vivaldi boxes for a considerable time before thinking of a new direction whatever it might be.
Imho, the vivaldi boxes are probably the most beautiful among all other digital ones, and yes they sound amazing too.
Yes all of those lines will be replaced over the next few years. However your Vivaldi stack will continue to sound wonderful. At some point you may want to decide if a replacement unit offers sufficient improvement to sound and music to justify the extra cost.Perhaps your interest is in owning the newest box ( and if you have the funds, why not?). Or you may think that what you already have sounds good enough for your real needs.
Whatever. The truth is that progress cannot be stopped.
I agree with you Barry and it seems like everything you suggest remains possible. Hopefully dCS will continue to invest in improvements in the V/R platform in particular, as you could easily continue to improve DSP and software, add DSD256, introduce an even better clock, etc.
Continuing @struts001 's reasoning, dCS decided after ~12 year, to introduce a new platform, a 918 Porsche Hypercar, continuing your analogy. This is odd, because very (very!) few satisfied 911 owners have the means to buy a 918 (at more than $1MM USD now) and so the product was and remained a tiny, tiny niche that no one really talks about. This could easily happen with Varese.
I guess (without evidence) that the Varese design decision may have started with the decision to split the RingDAC. Someone may have determined that the only way to improve the Vivaldi processing substantially was to shift to a dual mono architecture. Once that decision was made, this required the new Tomix protocol, to keep the DACs in synch, which was embodied in the ACTUS cable.
That decision in turn required completely new hardware.
Perhaps @Anupc can add, amend or improve my reasoning above
Actually I don’t have any problem with innovation and improvements at all. The problem is I have just spent a fortune for the vivaldi boxes and shortly after I see the potential of them become obsolete, that’s the main point.
If I knew about the Varese then of course I would act differently, like many of us here. But what happened happened and I don’t blame dcs about this.
We all need to move on anyway but my and some others’ timing are so bad and not helpful at all, especially if dcs decided to scrap all the v/r/b lines all together. So for new owners like myself, it seems a horrible investment if that makes sense.
I always aim for the best and surely Varese will be in my radar but we all need to listen to it first to decide, particularly value for money as I was not a millionaire who could pay without looking at the price tags. I’m just an ordinary hifi enthusiast who devoted my time and money for music and this crazy hifi hobby :).
What I am looking forward to are the reviews from Stereophile and Hi-Fi News.
These two related magazines not only have a subjective review but also give their own laboratory measurements. Further as both magazines have reviewed and measured all of Varese’s predecessors and related units these can be placed in context.
dCS have always promoted their units and upgrades as offering both improved sound and measurements. So these should be fascinating. Apologies to @Lee as I certainly look forward to the TAS view but unfortunately there will be no independent measurement ( yes, I appreciate Harry Pearson’s views from the days of the magazine’s origination).
As far as I can find out, first units for magazine review and dealer demonstration are still in preparation so maybe in the New Year given lead times?
I’ll just go back to a conversation that I had with a friend of mine who loves stereo but is more in the 2500 total budget. He asked me why a person would spend a million dollars on a stereo system citing what good could be done with that same money. I suggested to him that Bill gates makes an estimated 24 billion each year and donates maybe 6 billion a year. I asked if that 1 million gayes could spend on his stereo (theoretically) was unreasonable. He said no. I asked if he should be required to only have a 5000 dollar stereo because that would be reasonable. He agreed no. Somebody needs to reach for the pinnacle. That’s where progress comes from. If we get our feeling hurt because we can’t afford what bill gates buys possibly we should reevaluate our values. I for one feel blessed that I can afford my own system. I don’t feel bad that I can’t afford an extra million dollars for my system and hope that companies like dcs continue to reach for the pinnacle regardless of cost. Ultimately it benefits everyone. I’m looking to see how the achievements of the new varese system may enhance my digital enjoyment. I m thrilled to have my 4 stack and look forward to trickle down technology
Regardless of dCS starting point with the Varèse, until now, they’ve broadly stayed with the same architecture for 4 successive generations of flagship multi-box systems leveraging industry-standard interfaces while pushing the limits of SOTA.
I think the biggest challenge in developing the Varèse was; (a) how to substantially improve on the Vivaldi, which, to this day, remains pretty much at the top of the game objectively speaking (notice none of the other supposedly SOTA platform vendors has dared to submit to 3rd party measurements ), and, (b) how to stay ahead of the merchant silicon DAC chip suppliers & systems - ESS, AKM, TI, CL etc. - who’ve gotten measurably very very good during the Vivaldi’s life-span.
It’s no wonder dCS has had to literally invent new technology and a proprietary interface to stay ahead. Doesn’t diminish the sonic value of their current generation of products, but it’s inevitable those will have to likewise evolve with new hardware/software.
Had a great chat with the dCS folks at the HK hifi show today. It’s clear they’re very excited about the new platform! A couple interesting things they mentioned:
The APEX boards were derived from the work they were doing for Varese
Varese leverages the flexible PCB technology used in Lina
They are thinking about upgrade paths for existing owners. They suggested joining the info sessions on Tuesday this week for more info
I could imagine a possible “graceful” upgrade path for existing Vivaldi full-stack owners if dCS adds a new Varèse Core Output module that supports Dual-AES, a dynamic Word Clock, and RS232.
So, a multi-phase upgrade path might look like;
Convince the wife that these are pieces of art and thus worthy investments
Sell-off Vivaldi Upsampler and Vivaldi Master Clock. Add Varèse UI and Core (+ both the IO Module and the new Output Module)
This would enable the Vivaldi Transport and Vivaldi DAC to be integrated to Varèse (including the 3-legged RS232 cable). The new Core Output module would need to support down-sampling DSD256/512 to DSD128 (over Dual AES)
.
), and, (b) how to stay ahead of the merchant silicon DAC chip suppliers & systems - ESS, AKM, TI, CL etc. - who’ve gotten measurably very very good during the Vivaldi’s life-span.
. The more you look the better it gets.
