Improving SQ of Streaming

@Frankie67

Sorry, another question…. Is your fiber converter a self contained unit like a GigaFoilv4, having only Ethernet cable input and output? If so, it is probably in the best spot directly before Upsampler, so long as it has a low noise power supply.

I sympathize with your frustration. I’ve been there too, but once worked out streaming can be sublime.

2 Likes

I was about the ask the same question… and am similarly enlightened!

I don’t recall fibre optic having been mentioned before. This is the perfect isolator and no noise from the wall circuit will get through it. This is good news, though leaves me at a bit of a loss as to how your streaming SQ can be quite so disappointing…
As @SJF says, you could consider putting the fibre optic converter between the wall socket and the switch, with unshielded ethernet cable from SoTM switch to upsampler. Some PSUs for fibre-optic media converters (FMCs) are noisy, and some FMC’s are (reportedly) noisy.

In an earlier post, you mentioned [quote=“Frankie67, post:13, topic:5458”]
there are three Fritz repeaters in other rooms creating a meshed Wi-Fi network
[/quote]
Are the ethernet sockets in the walls hardwired? I just want to confirm whether the wifi “mesh” is in your audio playback chain at all.

1 Like

Yes they are hardwired. No the Wi-Fi is not in the audio playback chain.

1 Like

Thanks Franco. That’s the right answer if there is such a thing

1 Like

I’ll start by moving the fiber optic converter before the switch and replacing the “last mile” Ethernet cable with a good unshielded cat 6 cable. Will then consider changing the various cheap PSUs with better ones. It’s incredible how inferior streaming is now as opposed to the other sources of my system in terms of SQ.

This is what concerns me and no doubt others: with such high end dCS kit, streaming really should be right up there in terms of sound quality. Hence all the questions about your network to try to work out if there is something weird going on with your setup.

Don’t let the below get in the way of a structured approach to testing various parts of your network setup but for whenever…

You have a Fritz 7590 and 3 Fritz repeaters in other rooms. These are not connected to the ethernet port in that room, that’s not how they work. Correct?

Why then is the gigabit switch, which connects to the in-wall ethernet wires, connected via the 7590 and not direct to the Vodafone router? In other words, why is your music signal passing through the 7590 if the mesh is nothing to do with your music playback chain?

UPDATE: I think I get it now, having looked at the QuickStart guide for a 7590…

1 Like

Quick question: Are you able to listen to a similar setup at your dealer to form a baseline comparison?

This might indicate whether it’s an issue with your network setup or simply that streaming doesn’t sound as good as their CD/SACD player.

PS I moved from CD’s to streaming some time ago and the latter would open up Pandora’s box as to whether I need to prioritise the dCS transport over my next upgrade!

2 Likes

The key wording in your statement is “Sq in your system”
You have by far the best sounding source components in dCS I have ever heard regardless of format.
Honestly it should be blowing away vinyl.
There has to be an issue in your digital chain somewhere down the rather over complicated line.
Please try the route one solution offered here before you spend anymore money on unnecessary components in the chain. (Remember to take roon out of the equation too)
I’m pretty sure you’ll be pleasantly surprised

5 Likes

Thanks guys for all your help thus far. I’ll do some tests and report back.

2 Likes

In my experience there can be unexpected bottlenecks in a streaming system that affect SQ, I installed a balanced lineair powersupply for my ethernet switch.
I thought it sounded ok and left it in my system for a while and never went back to the original power supply, over a few months I started to notice that playing a CD on my Rossini was drawing me much more into the music then streaming with Qobuz, which was not the case before installing the lineair powersupply.

Going back to the original powersupply of my switch made the SQ vs streaming on par again. After that I tried an Ifi elite SMPS and that lifted the streaming SQ by a considerable margin, resolution, transients and PRaT have improved.

My dealer was a bit sceptical about my findings, but did give another client, who is running the same switch, an ifi elite to try at home without telling the client anything else. A week later that client reported simular gains in SQ and bought the ifi elite.

I have no explanation for the differences in SQ caused by the different powersupplies (tried 3 lineair and 2 SMPS), but I am happy that with a stroke of good luck I found a great match for my switch.

For clarity, I am running the following equipment:
Ziggo modem (Ifi wallwart) → AQ vodka → Asus router (ifi wallwart)–> supra ethernet cable → AQvox ethernet switch → 12 mtr certified CAT 6A → Melco S100 (ifi elite) → Sablon ethernet cable 1 mtr → DCS Rossini

2 Likes

Yes it is. Gonna give it a try after I receive the new unshielded cables.

I can talk about some key things that worked for me.

  1. I upgraded to the latest ATT router in my house.
  2. I plugged it into a Shunyata power conditioner.
  3. I added an Ansuz Sortz into an unused ethernet port.
  4. I added an Ansuz D2 Powerswitch for an ethernet switch 1 meter before the Rossini Apex.
  5. While I love Roon, Mosaic sounds much better for sound quality. Not sure if Roon quality would be better if I used a Roon nucleus versus my upper spec Macbook Pro.

All four added a bump in sound quality.

1 Like

Small things (EURO) can have a very nice indirect impact on SQ:

AUTH 503 and 506 with every SMPS.

Torben

1 Like

I too had similar issue, not Vivaldi upsampler but it was with the Network bridge. I believe dCS has their own way of presentation (apply filters) and if you like you like it otherwise it is difficult to take. I use PhoenixNet and not very expensive cables but good quality shielded Cat7+ cables. I was happy with dCS sound until one day I switched to Oppo player with same network configuration. I found Oppo player to be better both in streaming and ripped CD playback than Network bridge with PhoenixNet.

I got rid of Network bridge and went to computer based audio with premium JCAT cards powered by Sean Jacobs linear power modules to both computer and the JCAT cards. It was totally a different world, like never heard from my Vivaldi DAC before. I have Mutec in the chain along with Vivaldi master clock.

I was once desperately planning to buy Vivaldi upsampler but with the Network bridge experience I am no more thinking of it. Vivaldi DAC and clock are still better.

2 Likes

Hello Torben,
Thanks for your detailed chart.
In my system I have replaced step by step all switching power supplies by linear versions of Farad. For my Melco S100 a Farad Super 3, For the Nucleus Plus a Farad Super 10 and for the Bonn N8 a Farad Super 3 as well. Each step was an improvement in the SQ although I know that a lot of people doesn’t believe this.

My question to you is what is the effect of the ferrite baeds and why are you using 2 versions in each DC line? Has to do with the power of the SPSM’s?
As I do use the Farad power supplies I think there is no need to use the line filters.

FWW
Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD pre and MxV amplifiers
Rossini APEX DAC/Player and clock
Magico’s M2 speakers
Ziggo Modem
Netgear Orbi Mesh network all 3 floors
Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch near Ziggo modem and Master Orbi
AQ Carbon 18 m to the set
Melco S100 switch with Farad Super 3
Crystal Cable DaVinci Ethernet to Nucleus Plus
Crystal Cable DaVinci Ethernet to Rossini

1 Like

@ Frankie67
As I never use the DCS Mosaic app, I just checked the SQ between ROON with a track in TIDAL/Qobuz or in Mosaic.
With the set up in my previous reply to Torben, ROON even sounds better in comparison to Mosaic.
Also in comparison to CD’s played by the Rossini APEX DAC/Player, streaming is equal or sometimes better.
For many years I am streaming already and only since 2 years streaming here is on par or better as a CD since I improved step by step the streaming chain.

So, it must be possible with your Vivaldi Stack even better as it sounds here.
Yes, the used cables, switches and power supplies are ridiculous but each step has been tested quite serious and each step was a huge improvement in SQ.

2 Likes

Mooie set :grinning:

Hi Jeff

All power supplies makes noise - spew noise back into the AC mains. That includes LPS as well.

If you need ferrite bead on the DC cables (Farad) probably not.

Torben

1 Like

Nice system! I am a little surprised you prefer Roon as Mosaic sounds better on mine but we have different setups so anything is possible. But it’s a helpful data point nonetheless.

I am the same as you lee, roon is definitely not as good as far as sound quality goes

2 Likes