Perfecr!
1 Like
Best typo og the day 
4 Likes
In fairness to the beer, that might have been the whiskey chaser and Dire Straits exuberance!
1 Like
While I respect the awesome engineering team at dCS, they are not correct here. If they can visit the Atlanta burbs I can create a nice demo for them using the Foundation SX cable vs. Blue Jeans.
1 Like
Yes it is subjective. Critical listening skills matter. Not everything that counts can be measured.
1 Like
Subjective reviews are just that, subjective, and decidedly prone to human error and cognitive bias. Unless you’re suggesting you’re somehow special.
3 Likes
Differences of opinion and psychoacoustics are not the same as “factual correctness.” The fact that your assessment is entirely subjective strikes me as defeating the assertion that you are correct, and they are not.
While I agree with this concept in principle, in this context, it’s just a trope trotted out by subjectivists to justify the lack of objectivity in the assessment process. As I said earlier, subjective and objective listening impressions don’t have to be in opposition. You’re the one making the assertion; seems to me you ought to be the one who subjects that assertion to an actual A/B/X test.
I stress, as elsewhere, that you hear what you hear, and you’re free to put your money where your ears and brain are. But when you tell other people they are wrong, I think you ought to be able to back it up with more than subjective impressions.
6 Likes
Exactly.
In fact, the more accurate phrasing of that should be “Not everything we can hear can be interpreted from what we can measure.” because modern equipment can measure thousands of times better than human hearing.
An improvement of “20%” (Lee’s words, not mine), will be absurdly easy to measure even with the most rudimentary tests.
4 Likes
If this cable sounds better, than it must be solving a problem that I have with my Belden Bonded Pair CAT6 (UTP).
On the web-site it says: “the dramatic benefit of a perfectly voiced digital cable guaranteed to improve all aspects of your system’s performance”.
Than it must solve a problem that I have with my Belden Bonded Pair CAT6 (UTP).
The cost for 2 meter is almost $600 - so I think it would be nice to know what problems it solve compared my current cables.
Torben
1 Like
Why Cat6 would be better than Cat5e ? Is there any objective/measured reasons for that ?
I’m sure the statement in Anu’s first paragraph (Not everything we can hear can be interpreted from what we can measure.) is true. Although I also agree with Greg’s comment about subjectivist tropes I do wonder about the nature of some measurements and how realistic they are. For example, it appears that distortion (harmonic and intermodulation) is generally measured under simplified and idealised circumstances - in the latter case I think it is two pure tones, at a high level, and closely spaced in frequency. This may well be a tough test for a piece of electronics, but I can’t help wondering whether the equipment’s behaviour under such conditions is entirely representative of its performance with real music signals. Are there complexities of behaviour - which are audible to the human ear - that are being missed by such simple tests? I’m not an engineer, so perhaps someone with that background would comment?
Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea: this is not a defence of subjectivism. It is more a wish for better measurements (ones that more closely align with what we hear) and/or better interpretation. But we may never see them. If such measurements are known to the more technically advanced manufacturers, I expect they will keep quiet.
4 Likes
I believe the tolerances are stricter for Cat6. Here’s a quote from Google (factual I hope, and not a fantasy of their equivalent of ChatGPT): CAT6 cables are designed for operating frequencies up to 250 MHz, compared to 100 Mhz for CAT5e. This means that a CAT6 cable can process more data at the same time.
I suspect the higher capacity is overkill for domestic audio, but still…
It is also the case that 75 Ohm coax cable has continued to be developed to support higher data rates and longer distances of reliable transmission (I think in the many 10s or even 100s of metres). That’s probably not relevant to an undemanding application such as a 1 m clock cable - my only current use for such a cable - but of course I bought one!
3 Likes
For our purposes Cat5e is good. Cat6A offers greater bandwidth. 1 vs 10 Gigabit. Cat 5e -1 Gigabit is fine for audio.
4 Likes
Torbenrick, thanks for quoting that from the website. I’m open to the possibility that a specific Ethernet cable might actually reveal & solve a problem of which the listener was unaware, e.g., a faulty or poorly constructed cable, noise, bad fitting, improper or unnecessary shielding, etc. And I accept the fact that different analog cables can sound different with different pieces of equipment; I’ve paid money for that one. But a “perfectly voiced digital cable guaranteed to improve all aspects of your system’s performance”? Seriously?
1 Like
I was trying to make sure the comparison was valid since both are Cat6.
This is true on some level but cognitive biases can be minimized.
I think a lot of our differences here relate to how much of an objectivist one is. I personally believe that measurements only tell half the story and we should use critical listening skills to form subjective judgments too. Subjective judgments are totally valid in this hobby.
1 Like
Simon, I thinks that’s a very valid point, certainly worthy of discussion but probably warrants a separate thread all it own.
Specifically on this Ethernet cable thread though, the differences in sound described by Lee of “20% improvement”, “smearing in the vocals”, “another level of clarity”, “bright with Blue Jeans”, etc., are all attributes that are easily measured with standard tests. No rocket science or Ph.D in psychoacoustics required.
I don’t disagree at all, but you’re making extraordinary claims that defy known physics of how Ethernet cables work. That requires more than your subjective opinion if it’s to be taking seriously.
3 Likes
But for what purpose? Hobbyist tweaking fun? Creative writing? Bets over beers? You bet! But as proof of anything, no. You’ve asserted that your subjective impression proves that dCS’s Ethernet cable recommendation is wrong. I’m sorry, that’s nonsense. You are free to like the cable, and insist to yourself that it improves your system’s sound by 20%, but like all subjective opinions, that only goes as far as you. It’s not necessarily applicable to anyone else.
You can like Oregon Pinot better than California, but that doesn’t mean someone else is wrong for preferring the latter. Your preference doesn’t prove another person wrong. If someone likes a certain stemware, by all means enjoy it! But if that person then asserts that their preferred stemware actually makes a wine taste better than another stemware, that’s testable and subject to falsification. And it doesn’t require measurements. Like ears and brains, taste buds and brains can also be put to the test.
Your subjective judgment is only “totally valid” for you. Until it is either demonstrated to be replicable, or supported by something independent of your cognitive biases, it’s just an opinion. Especially something like the extraordinary claim of a 20% sonic improvement from an Ethernet cable.
3 Likes
Well…you might be right for audio, but I must say that Pinot coming from Alsace is 21% better than Californian Pinot 
5 Likes
Using Ethernet cables that are shielded and have shielded Ethernet connectors that directly connect the chassis ground of the audio streamer to the chassis ground of what might be a quite electrically noisy networking device. NO THANKS
Or use this to fix the problem with these kind of cables:
Or use something like this:
Torben