I will second that (Puccini to Vivaldi). A little research on the internet will tell you what the traded-in unit will sell for, and from that you can figure out a value. Then you engage with the dealer and, well, it may be a test of your negotiating skills. If there are written down upgrade prices anywhere I’ve never come across them. A fellow Vivaldi owning friend of mine, who upgraded at the same time, is a better negotiator than me. He has had much success simply sitting on the fence, saying ‘It’s too much money’, and ‘I’m not sure I really want it anyway’. The thing is: he really means it. The retailer takes this as a challenge, and makes a huge effort to find a deal that works for everyone. There is then happiness all round when he succeeds…
Well like most things in life, if you want it, then go for it.
If you are worried about losing money, then simply dont buy new, as you will certainly lose the most doing it this way, be it 12 months or 5 years later, once you open the box its secondhand, and looking at the secondhand prices, then its a big hit on vivaldi boxes and obviously be worse if a new version comes out, thats life.
Similar to others, I got a great deal with the local dCS dealer back in late '12 when I upgrade my Scarlatti stack to the Vivaldi stack. The terms were very favourable compared to what I might have expected to get from the 2nd hand market by myself (I believe there was already a buyer lined up for my Scarlatti).
The resale market for dCS is very robust, especially so for an old flagship soon after the release of a new flagship. Even today, 8 years later, you rarely find a Scarlatti stack available for purchase on the 2nd hand market.
Great responses there. Puts it all in context and clarifies the options people may have.
I keep thinking about this statement. Very insightful. Thank you. Puts beautifully into words my concern that upgrading is actually downgrading of the old component. What was previously wonderful is now pale. And does the perceived improvement result in a real long term increase in musical enjoyment?
And certainly don’t tell us if you do the comparison and the MSB is better. 
Hi, MSB is not better, it is different if I understood well…I think we can believe that, because some people on this forum have enough possibility buying the very very very best…and it seems they bought dCS gear…Thus no worry, you lose obviously a large amount of the money you spent…dCS is may be built like a Patek Philip, but we can not expect selling a Vivaldi Dac twice the price we paid it 10 years before…
FWIW, I’ll post this link to my previous comparison of the two. The preview doesn’t show the Vivaldi/MSB comparison; that starts in the second paragraph.
I had a chance to try both the MSB Reference and Premiere DACs with the power base options versus my Vivaldi stack. I didn’t find the Reference made any notable improvement in my system, however the Premiere with all the top options was a small improvement. Not enough of an improvement to temp me into taking at least a 50% hit on the Vivaldi and then spending big $ for the MSB. Plus the Vivaldi Transport didn’t work with the MSB, so the full stack would have to get replaced. The MSB can function as a pre-amp, but that has a whole other set of issues for me. So if I was starting from scratch I would give the MSB set serious consideration and build around it but as a replacement in my current system, it just wasn’t enough better to justify the expense.
Re-reading this chain I was inspired to research the MSB Premier and found this enthusiastic review.
For the record, and contrary to the author’s attempt at humor, the Rosetta Stone does not contain any cuneiform, but instead Heiroglyphics, Greek and Demotic. Just sayin’ … ; )
I brought in a MSB Reference DAC to compare to my Vivaldi gear. Each had its strengths. I thought MSB was much better on vocals whereas the dCS seemed to pull more data from some tracks. MSB also requires fewer cabling dollars and would take up less space in my rack.
If I was starting over it would be a tough choice which way to go. There was not a big enough difference to change now.
My comparisons at the time were that dCS was a tad softer than MSB, which felt more sure footed. I felt the dCS was a little more charming in a way. Unfortunately I could not do this comp in my system so take it with a grain of salt.
See, for me the MSB’s detail makes it a bit harsh, not unlike dCS DACs without a clock.
Funny I found that dCS pulls out more detail while MSB removes “noise” around vocals. I didn’t know it was there ‘till it was gone.
Removing haze and revealing soundstage is what I heard when I connected the Rossini Clock.
And I hear little discernible difference with my Vivaldi Clock in or out of my stack. Go figure.
Happy to test it for you,
No charge:)
It’s so interesting that we / our systems are affected (or not!) in such different ways.
There aren’t many components that have made a bigger difference to my enjoyment than a Vivaldi Clock did when I added it to my Bartok.
Interesting.
I’ve mentioned before that without the Rossini Clock, I wouldn’t have purchased a Rossini, the sound quality didn’t come anywhere close to meeting that of the Wadia S7i I had been using.
It was only with the addition of the Rossini Clock that the combo met and surpassed the sound of the Wadia; without the clock it was a bit harsh, piano was a little metallic and soundstaging was lacking in comparison.
I had a Wadia S9 which was bettered and replaced by a Meridian 808v6 in a A/B. Then the Meridian was barely surpassed in a A/B in my set-up before being replaced by a Rossini and clock. That lasted about a year before I had the opportunity to move to the Vivaldi stack (sans transport).
S9, nice. You too know how hard it is to find anything that will beat Wadia.
I think that’s part of why the Rossini Clock was required for me; Wadia always did a lot with their ClockLock to achieve tight clock timing so you get used to that sound.
I never got a chance to hear a Meridian so I can’t comment on them.
We all hear everything differently. It’s what makes this hobby both maddening and rabbit-hole enticing. I never found any Wadia rendition particularly convincing. And that’s just me. As between the Vivaldi+Clock and the MSB Select II, I found the MSB slightly more revealing but the Vivaldi more “organic.” I’m not even sure exactly what those terms mean relatively, but they are the words that come to mind when I struggle to compare two excellent DACs. However, with the Kronos reference clock added into the mix, my Vivaldi system seems to have the best of both resolution and realism. Given that my MSB-driven headphone rack has four different amps (including two valve amps) for each of its headphones, while the Vivaldi-driven speaker system has just a single amplification chain into speakers, the comparison is pretty much the opposite of “scientific.” I love them both. And “both” is best.