Indeed.
The bigger the risk the bigger the possible reward.
Though right now if you were invested in Netflix and Meta, you’re a bit nervous. 
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It looks like I have egg on my face as dCS do seem to be offering the Bartok HPA only through headphone specialists. I have checked a few candidate UK high-end headphone vendors and have found one with the unit who does not represent dCS in any other way. However other well know UK specialists in this field seem not to be participating - at least so far.
I initially thought that the size of the US headphone market might make this strategy unique to that country .It seems not. I wish them luck.
Edit:It tums out that the UK headphone dealer with the Bartok HPA is also a full h-fi dealer carrying the other dCS lines. He just runs the headphone part of the business under a different trading title. So, back to square one!
Over here in Canada, my dealer, at least, seems to cary both along with the entire DCS line. Pricing clearly hasn’t been updated. I called and asked when I saw the reports of Bartok HPA moving to headphone specialist and was told they represent the entire DCS line and I would be taken good care of.
If Rossini and Vivaldi have Apex, then what will Bartok have besides the increased price? Firmware? But for Rossini and Vivaldi 2.0 was free. I already own my Bartok, in my country the price for it has doubled in 2 years (by the end of February, retail will be x2). With such a price, this is already more of a luxury product, I’m not sure that it will be competitive in terms of sound in its price niche. Will Apex be available for Bartok in the future? It would be nice to understand the future of this product. I can earn by selling it and buy another brand that is more loyal to my wallet. Now there are quite a few devices that can sound great, at least as good as my Bartok.
Rossini and Vivaldi 2.0 were firmware upgrades which are , indeed offered for free. Apex involves a substantial hardware upgrade ( from what we understand unofficially) and hardware upgrades have always attracted a cost.
There is no way of predicting what may be available for Bartok in the future. It is the most recent of dCS DACS and therefore it may be some time before any upgrades are made available. dCS is a small company and has not the ability to upgrade all of the existing base of products in one hit.
I really do not understand your point about other products. Of course other potentially competitive products come along regularly. This is the case for every item in an audio system. If this worries you then you will find that you need to buy a complete new system at least once a month to keep up with new products. It is more sensible to only think about replacements once you have a clear idea of exactly what you require and have a clear idea about the path to follow to meet that need.You will just go round in circles if you have a vague “that might be better” frame of mind. In reality significant advance in audio technology is pretty slow. The best audio system that I have ever heard aside from its CD player source used no basic technologies that were not available by the end of the second world war.
Each company conducts its pricing policy in the way that it considers to be the best. It is also true that the owners of DCS Vivaldi and DCS Rossini received an upgrade that significantly improved the sound and functionality of their devices at no extra cost. Probably the development of the new version v2.0 of the software was expensive and it was a nice gesture from DCS. That is why the owners of DCS Bartók can, by analogy, expect a similar gesture from the company. However, we do not know whether this will happen. If, however, the 2.0 version for Bartók turned out to be a paid option, the Bartók ovners would feel disappointed and unfairly treated as the owners of the flagship device. These are emotions and experiencing a given situation. However, this does not change the fact that DCS has the right to pursue its own pricing policy and expect reimbursement of the incurred development costs. The costs of development and adaptation of version 2.0 for DCS bartók will probably be lower because they are similar hardware platforms. And most of the work was done when the upgrade for the flagship Daces was prepared. Let’s hope for the best but let’s get ready for the worst :).
I just want to figure out where the price is for Apex, and where is the price for the global crisis.
After all, I even positively look at a paid hardware upgrade, it’s great when a 10-year-old Vivaldi or a 7-year-old Rossini can be improved by replacing the DAC board for money. This is Apex. This is $8600. Everything is clear here.
But w/clocks, upsamplers and Bartok has no Apex. But their prices have risen in the same proportion as for Rossini and Vivaldi DACs with Apex. In this case, even the “free” firmware 2.0 for Bartok will be at the price of Apex. I do not know if I was able to convey my thoughts in an understandable way or not?
The only comment I’d make is that folks seem to be implying that there’s a cost associated with the Bartok 2.0 upgrade - the increase only applies if you’re buying new, not if you already own a Bartok. If you already own a Bartok and they release a 2.0 then I’d expect that it will free, same as it has been in the past.
However, I do agree that if you’re buying new, then the increased price for Rossini seems to be providing better value than the increase price for Bartok, clocks etc. as there’s (apparently) a significant hardware upgrade included.
Cheers, Mike.
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As an owner from new, of a 9 month old Rossini, I wouldn’t expect the Apex upgrade price to be the full difference between the 2021 price and the 2022 Apex price, as is rumoured to be the case.
The upcoming price increase reflects the recent increases in all the components that make up the Rossini, not just the “Apex-specific” changes.
guess the price is btw. 8000-9500Euro here…
Hi Omni, I’m in exactly the same situation as you, 9 month old Rossini bought new from a UK dealer.
I too would hope that they take into account the fact that most of the device already exists, so the increase should only apply to the upgraded elements and associated labour. Selfishly, I’m also hoping that DCS will take into account the age of a device when setting an upgrade price - so that a discount is applied based on the age, the newer the device, the greater the discount.
Probably wishful thinking though….
Mike.
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same situation…bought my dCS few month ago,
I second that: my Rossini is 4 months old …
The ball is in their court now: their choices will determine not only if we spend our money for this upgrade. It will determine where our money will go next time we buy something at this level.
A.
I totally agree with you Omni. To pay full difference for upgrade is a non sense and very bad for DCS image. But let’s wait and see…
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Good comments. My Rossini Player is only two months old. The consolation is that, faced with the cost of a new Rossini Apex, I’d probably have stayed with the Bartok I had.
Indeed but the point being made is that asking the full difference between the old and new prices for the upgrade is effectively asking you to pay in part again for something that you have already paid for as the new price is not wholly made up from the upgrade.
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I guess I’ve taken a different tack - I bought Ros+clock going from a Bartok just a few weeks ago after hearing of these potential changes. The main reason was that based on my budget I could support the current DAC+clock, or likely just the Apex version based on those prices we were seeing. I figure I would be ahead particularly on the clock, and then over time evaluate a HW upgrade (if indeed it’s offered). I’m already very happy about this change so far.
On the Apex upgrade cost, I’m of two minds. I totally agree that in principle a HW upgrade should only reflect the cost of those boards plus the return on investment dCS has made. After all, why should existing Ros owners pay for the higher cost of ancillary parts that aren’t changing in the updated version…
At the same time, based on what we’ve heard from dCS on things it’s clear that costs have gone up a lot. Assuming no wholesale design changes to the Apex, the cost of say the casework won’t changed a lot since say November/December (when I think my DAC was made) vs. Apex in February. But it certainly has gone up a lot even since the last price increase. In other words, today I’ve probably “benefited” from that cost squeeze, but that may not be the case in a month after prices go up. But that’s my specific situation - costs were a lot lower a couple years ago and maybe more aligned with the (lower) price tag.
In any case it seems complicated. I still think it would be the right call to make the upgrade path better for existing owners that have been long time clients, and really focus on what actually is being changed/upgraded. I guess we’ll see next week - I’m pretty excited to hear about it.
Where I figure I go wrong is if they roll out a Bartok 2.0 that makes it sound as good as Ros 2.0!
I also want to say the community here is just great, it’s just a nice place to check in on every few days where everyone is really out to help each other rather than just yell back and forth about whatever.
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I did exactly the same thing - I bought a Rossini and clock a few weeks ago when I caught wind of the changes. I’m thrilled with the results - better music than I had hoped for. I’m happy with the total price I paid and I’ll kick the Apex upgrade tires down the road.
Current model sounds so good I feel no regrets.
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Which sounds like a great plan.
While it’s almost a 100% certainty the Apex will sound better than the current models, until someone can actually listen to one it’s all a theoretical.
It’s never happened with dCS, but over time the high end audio world has seen several “upgrades” of products that turned out not to be.
(Read Michael Fremer’s review of the then new Mark Levinson No. 53 if you’re curious:
Stereophile: Mark Levinson No.53 Reference monoblock power amplifier review by Michael Fremer
)
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