The case here is not an ordinary one. Raising the price by 25% is a serious step. I haven’t often seen such a radical price hike. The frog can be boiled by raising the water temperature gently. If you throw it into boiling water, it will jump out of the pot. I can buy what I want, but my psyche starts to reject that action. It seems to me that this is a serious miscalculation by the marketing department.
Life goes on. Nothing is permanent under the sun. Everything that doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.
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I have never heard the analogy with the frog before. In this case it is so apt.
I do not work for dCS neither am I otherwise in any position to see their books. However to see the price rise as something brought about by their marketing department as @Tyg seems to believe is to have misunderstood what is going on.
We know ( rather than just speculate) that the costs of raw materials like aluminium and electrical circuit components like chips plus the costs of energy have risen astonishingly over the past 18 months due to shortages or other effects mainly brought about as a result of the Covid 19 pandemic. This also includes huge raises in the prices of shipping, initially affecting sea transport but now, as a result of that, air transport ( most airlines are now trying to have part of their passenger fleet converted to goods transport).
For dCS who manufacture expensive products for their market in any case the nature of their products means that they are hugely affected by these external factors. For example you would be amazed at how much those beautiful solid aluminium cases cost dCS from their CNC machining suppliers.
We also know that earlier in the year these cost increases had reached a point where dCS could no longer afford to make and sell at an acceptable price their entry level product , the Network Bridge. They were forced to withdraw it from production.
Those matters are facts rather than speculation. What I am prepared to speculate about is that no company would need to raise prices by as much as what is happening this week unless it was essential for them. In other words these rises are almost certainly existential for dCS. Remember also that dCS has probably only increased the price by around one fifth of the retail price. That may still be a significant rise in % terms but the aggregation thereon of distributor’s and retailer’s margins plus sales taxes ( particularly relevant in Europe) results in large actual monetary sums.
I am also going to speculate that , again due to effects from the pandemic, dCS has not been in a position to launch any major new product. However it is necessary for normal business reasons to provide the market with something to buy. Hence the Apex versions of the existing Rossini and Vivaldi DACs. I would guess that in order to cushion the biggest of the rises seen in cash terms the Apex upgrade is partly there to give customers the feeling that at least they have something extra. I would also guess ( no more than that) that what Apex is was originally intended for the replacement model or models that they are currently unable to launch.
As I said I speculate that these rises are likely to be an existential matter. I am therefore concerned, not with the rises per se ( which are beyond me anyway), but with the success of them and whether or not dCS will still be with us in 2023.
Dear Pete. You may be right, you may be partly right, and you may be wrong. Time will bear out the truth. Our polemic is like an effort to solve a system of equations in which there are more unknowns than the equations themselves. Neither of us has any reliable information about the state of affairs in the Dcs. I have been a business owner myself for 27 years and understand something about it. And your question about whether Dcs will exist in 2023 is no longer rhetorical. We shall see. I have no complaints about price rises, I don’t like the way they are happening. I shake your hand and wish Dcs prosperity.
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That is true, but, with regard to aluminium prices, we are now being asked to pay through the nose for the casing of a dCS product (as that accounts for a huge part of the total price), which may or may not have an influence on the sound. Sure, it’s great to have a nice looking product in your HIFI chain, but it becomes somewhat of an ego statement when the relation between value (and by that I mean sound) and price becomes severely skewed.
As to shipping costs, why does the price hike take effect across the geographical board? I would imagine that shipping a product from England to France versus shipping it to the States represents different orders of cost.
I’m being grumpy, I know. But I do feel suckered as I would have bought the Rossini rather than the Bartok + new amp two months ago, had I known that dCS were planning on increasing their prices by such a significant margin.
There are indeed quite a few very good DACs on the market, such as the Lumin X1, which before the price hike, cost the same as the Bartok, but represents greater value now. I demoed the Lumin X1, and I honestly couldn’t say that it performs less well than the Bartok. I went with the Bartok because of the dCS upgrade path, which is now highly compromised for me.
I understand that for wealthy people these price hikes may not matter, but for someone like me for whom money is an object (and I don’t believe that anyone on this forum is exactly poor), the dCS product line is turning sour.
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Marco, You make some good points.
Unfortunately sound quality alone is not what motivates many to buy high end audio. Companies in this segment cater as well to those for whom price is not a primary consideration but where looks may be. Given that if Vivaldi came in a paper bag it would still be for most people a costly item. People would then think " I am not spending that on something that’s just in a paper bag". It isn’t a straightforward trade off between looks and performance.
As for share of e.g. shipping costs across countries situated in different parts of the world I am in an even worse position than you, no literal shipping involved just a short piece of trucking 80 miles down the motorway. But setting prices that roughly equate internationally is required to prevent grey imports ( undercutting a local distributor).
However I am concerned that now there may be no path for dCS to capture the interest of lifetime audiophiles from an affordable ( in realistic terms) entry level with an approachable ladder of upgrades towards the flagship. Reliance upon the carriage trade, many of whom are not very interested in audio per se ( talk to your dealer 
), does not offer any assurance of repeat business IMO.
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Such good discussion.
Worth pointing out as well that for most products there’ll be shipping costs even if you live at the factory door. The bits to make the finished articles have to come from somewhere too.
Hoping the next few days work out well. It’s really unfortunate that we’re discussing this in a vacuum. I think the Cambridge peeps should have been out in front of this more. I’m all-but-certain things are more complex than we realise, but better comms and expectation setting cost almost nothing.
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The price of aluminum…well…possibly…but why many other companies using a lot of aluminum don’t rise their prices like dCS ? YG accoustics, Magico, Simaudio etc, etc, they don’t even change their prices. 5% would have been acceptable, but 25% it isn’t.
I am not talking about Apex products, we might find out that their new specification justifies the new price. I am talking for example of the Vivaldi clock…plus 5000 euros…same spec…it is a joke 
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Yes, I agree with you.
Here’s a little calculation I made. Acquiring a Rossini at 30000 € translates into:
- where I live, most expensive tickets for world-class orchestras are about 100 € – so that’s 300 tickets – let’s say, I go to ten orchestral concerts a year, that means one Rossini will cover 30 years!
- I live 1 and a half hours away from Paris (by TGV) – trip + tickets (mid range) + 3 star hotel + brasserie dinner will be about 400 € – so one Rossini = 75 Paris trips! (Put in lunch and some extras as well, it will still be about 60 trips.) Say I do that 6 times a year, one Rossini will cover 10 years.
I hadn’t thought about hifi prices this way before. I’m beginning to find them insane (for some products). Not to mention that, however good your gear, it will never ever perform to the SQ of a live concert (I won’t even mention the added benefit of a two-day stay in Paris.)
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How about where they are situated ?:
USA + Canada produces 3.99 million metric tons of aluminium annually.
UK produces 223, 000 tons.
There is going to be economies of scale in there somewhere.
It‘s not the aluminum, it‘s the chip! Global shortage rises prices all over. I bought a car in April last year !! and it‘s still not delivered because a chip is missing. IT companies take many chips with long term commitments, they are the preferred customers. Hifi manufacturers, cars companies etc. which don‘t take thousands of it are left behind. My guess- within the next month every hifi company will rise prices (or did already so)
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Changes in aluminium prices over 5 years on the London Stock Exchange
Now let’s do the maths. Suppose the price has doubled and the overpayment on a tonne of metal is $1,500. My Rossini weighs 16kg. Let’s assume that the weight of the hull is 10kg. 1000kg divided by 10 = 100 Rossini hulls. $1500 overpayment divided by, let’s say, 75 hulls = we get a whopping $20. At the end of the day it’s $50. It seems to me that the thesis of metal overpricing breaks down completely. What do you think? This kind of maths can be used in every thesis about universal problems.
There are so many variables involved. Here are just two:
- Price: I’d love it if dCS gear were cheaper. dCS would probably love it if were more expensive.
- Capacity: I’d love it if there was no waitlist for a new bit of kit. dCS would probably like it too. (Though not necessarily.)
Even if those two variables were the end of it, there is already some tension that might/should affect prices: Why leave money on the table if you’re already selling all the kit you can make? Bumping up prices — whether we like it or not — is one way for dCS to help their business stay healthy. Especially if variable costs are increasing, as they seem to be for everybody. Do we think it would it be better for dCS to reduce their margins and reduce their runway and/or R&D for the future?
But there are many, many more:
- have some dCS suppliers started prioritising much larger customers?
- is it costing dCS more to make each DAC than it used to?
- are alternatives now close enough that people might choose a competitor’s device over one of dCS’s lovely wares?
- are the territories that dCS operates in already saturated? Have we already bought our ears’ worth?
- is the versioning strategy of firmware releases cannibalising the sales of new gear? (How good can Bartok 2.0 sound before it stops Ben buying a Rossini or a Vivaldi or a Bonzo Dog?)
- is there some accrued resentment building over how long it takes to get a new item? (“I waited so long that they replaced what I was waiting for!”)
There are many things that dCS is nailing — I don’t want to sound too negative!
I had a go at listing the upsides/downsides/considerations here:
https://www.methodical.io/quiz/ef95dcd74cd1cb814821b3260abef65b/?access_key=8fc35b2fc70a
(Disclaimer — the above is a link to a tool my business built to help us avoid thinking the world was simple. If people think that sharing my attempt at completing it from dCS’s point of view is uncool in any way, I’ll remove it. I’m not trying to drum up business, just fuel some more healthy debate.)
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Yes, Ben. You are right. Life is more complicated than it seems. I think this whole conversation is pointless. Dcs is doing his thing and we’re doing ours. We vote with our wallets. See you at the technical debate on Dcs technique. I’ll leave you with my best wishes.
The information has been confirmed. There will be new prices tomorrow. Prices are going up by 25-30%.
Hi folks,
Seems I chose the wrong time to take a long weekend, some of these threads have exploded over the weekend!
To answer the questions raised regarding pricing, our latest price increases are a direct reflection of increased manufacturing costs.
We’ve worked hard to keep our prices stable, but the reality is that it is much more expensive to make a dCS product now than it was just six months ago. We’ve seen huge increases in the price of metalwork, electronic components, packaging and freight, among other items, and this has led to a sharp increase in the cost of both manufacturing and R&D.
Throughout the pandemic, we’ve done everything in our power to ensure we can continue making and shipping dCS products, as well as investing in innovation. We’ve managed to keep product lead times stable, and maintain continuous research and development, but this has come at an added cost, and our price increases effective Feb 1st mirror this additional expense.
With regards to future product upgrades, our engineers are always exploring how we can further enhance our products and technologies, and provide new features and benefits for dCS customers. We do have an announcement to make later in February.
As always, dCS customers will be notified whenever we have news to share, and rest assured, all upgrades and updates released by dCS are thoroughly tested to ensure they deliver real improvements.
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Да. Время не очень удачное выбрано для выходных. Без информации всё здесь взорвалось. У меня в стране есть изречение: человеку который признает вину голову не рубят. С большим интересом ждем сюрпризы приятные и меньше всего неприятные. Их уже достаточно. 
James, you provide a great justification in general terms for a price increase ( hence my “like” credit). As you will have seen many of the points that you raise have been covered by some of us here already ( though I missed out on increased R&D costs and we have both missed out on what should be salary increases for you all in 2022 just too stay in line with the higher levels of UK inflation predicted for this year).
BUT
The increases that we have been looking at are not just composed of increased manufacturing costs. There is also a hardware upgrade to Rossini and Vivaldi; Apex.
You have not mentioned this so:
-
Is this an illusion? Is there is no such thing and the dealers or distributors who have (probably inadvisably) posted price lists effective from 1st February that include this upgrade are mistaken as to the existence of such a thing?
-
Is it a real thing but dCS is unwilling to tell us about it until:
[quote=“James, post:77, topic:3008”]
We do have an announcement to make later in February.[/quote]
Even though the posted price lists say it is available from tomorrow?
As you know I am a huge supporter of dCS but , bluntly, this whole thing seems to have been handled in a poor way ( not that you are in any way personally to blame). But the confusion and negative opinions posted here mean to me that matters cannot wait until “later in February”.
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