Question for the community - there doesn’t seem to be a referenced to a Bartok with headphone amp in the price list posted above.
Theoretically, could the real-estate where the headphone amp transformer is located in the non-headphone amp Bartok be used for a future hardware upgrade e.g. second transformer to support the powering of analog output stage or similar?
Well you could do all sorts of things give the extra space. But whether or not dCS will is unknown.
Bear in mind that one of the big issues currently is shortage of circuit components. Once this shortage is resolved Bartok with headphone amp might reappear.
Unless I imagined it I think part of the new approach (in the US at least, sans dCS America) was to sell the Bartok with headphone amp — and only this model — via different channels.
A couple of examples:
As far as I know these places didn’t sell dCS products until recently.
I’ll not keep my opinion on this to myself. I think it’s bonkers. Why remove routes to purchase (Bartok with headphone amp via the old channels, as well as the non-HP model and upgrade paths to the rest of the range), and to relationships with salespeople that could be nurtured? Or, indeed, already friendly and fruitful!
It might not be true, of course, in which case I’ll sit back down 
If this is the case this is a little problematic for me - I’ve just reserved a Bartok w/ HA with my new dealer a few weeks back thinking it was the best long term investment. Brand & dealer service and support was a huge factor in my decision. If Bartok HA focus is being shifted from traditional dealers to online channels, I’d rather change my order to the Bartok sans headphone amp. Perhaps it is a matter of principal, but I prefer to stay away from products that are being driven into online channels. Who will give you better support if something goes wrong? Someone who picks up the phone or a website.
Agreed, but keep the emphasis on the “if” for now! My post needs some salt liberally applied
Since the Bartok headphone version was always meant to be a head-fi product, it is available within the head-fi distribution channel. Only this version of the Bartok is (and will ever be) available in the head-fi space. All other products – the Bartok Streamer (sans headphone features), the Rossini series, the Vivaldi series – will continue to be sold and serviced exclusively within our existing and trusted two-channel network of dealers.
John Giolas (dCS head of Advertising and Promotion)
From: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/breaking-news-from-dcs….34028/post-765825
That I can understand, but if the new pricing model means that traditional dealers will be no longer selling / supporting the Bartok w/ HA, I’d prefer to change to the sans HA Bartok
Ughhhhhhh. Thanks, Erno. Shame my memory was good this time. I think this is a mistake. I hope I’m wrong, or that if dCS find out it’s misguided that they change course a bit. Smells of a company thinking its product range/internal structure is how its customers will interact with them.
For a sample size of one (me), they’re wrong.
Out of interest, how would this approach have affected your dCS purchases? You started at the Bartok with headphone amp, added a Clock, then went for a Rossini. This might have happened rather differently with this new approach.
I (would only) have bought it (Bartók HDAC) through my dealer.
I called my dealer here in Toronto Canada and she told me with confidence she will continue to sell and support Bartok w/ HA. If she is happy I am happy.
I hope the same is true in the US.
The head-fi world is a completely different terrain than the traditional hifi world. I think it is a matter of age. Traditional hifi dealers live from often a life long relationship with their customers. The head-fi world caters to on-line people, that come and go.
If the Bartók HDAC is available in both locales, then dCS are tapping into a new, additional clientele.
This needs clarification. John Giolas’ letter dates from December 2021 and significantly predates the new price list and thus has nothing to do with it. It does not say anywhere that Bartok HPA is exclusively available from the head-fi market vendors rather that HPA is the only dCS product that will be. It doesn’t preclude traditional dealers from selling it too.
Either way this seems only to be a N.American issue, no ?
If the Bartok with HA was dropped we’ll hear about it at some point and the rationale for it. Could be any number of reasons, if it’s true. Lack of demand, chip shortages forcing prioritization of products, not a good experience selling through online headphone dealers…
I wonder what would happen with Expanse?
I hope you’re right, @PAR, but my reading of the (admittedly old) John Giolas post is that this section says otherwise:
“All other products – the Bartok Streamer (sans headphone features), the Rossini series, the Vivaldi series – will continue to be sold and serviced exclusively within our existing and trusted two-channel network of dealers.”
I read that as the Bartok HPA will not be available via the two-channel network in the US. (It seems Canada is different.)
If that’s true, this feels spectacularly misguided to me. Consider these scenarios, which are actual examples from members of this forum:
Customer is keen on a dCS DAC for a mix of headphone and speaker listening. Tries the Bartok HPA somewhere, and wonders how the next step up compares. Dead end. “You’ll have to go somewhere else to see how the Clock and the Rossini and the Vivaldi compare.”
Customer starts with a Bartok HPA for a mix of headphone and speaker listening. Eventually heads back to the same dealer for an upgrade. “Nope. Try someone else.”
@Ermos I agree with you that it’s likely good if dCS are reaching new people with the Bartok HPA. I don’t see any reason why this should be done exclusively, though. At least not from a customer’s point of view. Maybe dCS know something we don’t. If that’s the case, in my opinion they need to be much, much clearer about how they think we should be approaching their range. At the moment — at least in the US — it’s tending toward a mess in my opinion. That we’re even talking about this rather than how much we love our DACs and our music is a good indication that there are improvements to be made.
Ben , your interpretation would only be correct if Giolas said anywhere that the availability of Bartok HPA was restricted to the head-fi market vendors. He doesn’t .
In précis form:
Bartok HPA will be the only dCS product that you will ever be able to buy from head-fi vendors.
The rest of the range will only be available from traditional dealers.
This does not exclude HPA from being sold by the latter. It is like Naim Muso. That is sold in all sorts of places. However for everything else you have to go to an accredited Naim dealer ( who will also sell you a Muso if you want one).
I think John is saying exactly that, though:
All other products — the Bartok Streamer (sans headphone features)…
…vs. the much simpler:
All products…
(Emphasis mine.)
If the entire range — including the Bartok HPA — will be buyable from traditional dealers, then wooohoooo. I just fear that’s not what John wrote.
The sentence “Our entire range will be available from traditional dealers” is an easy one to write, after all. That he added clarifications around headphone and non-headphone versions suggests to me that he did so for a reason.
Within the Asian markets at least, Pete is spot on; traditional dCS channels have access to the full dCS range, including the Bartok HDAC. While a new set of additional Head-Fi channels have access to just the Batok HDAC.
Yeah it would seem a little silly to keep that product out of their core dealer network. The Bartok HPA is a smart gateway product - I came from the head-fi world and it represented a way to bridge to a “summit” type DAC with a great headphone amp, especially with expanse. I went through a dealer but I know the headphone ecosystem can be a bit more online focused so going that way opens the market. And if they got hooked on dCS it’s not super hard to find dealers to work with.
But I’m grateful for the forums here because this thread helped me accelerate the move to Rossini+clock before the cost increase that would have priced me out of getting a clock, and now if these reports are true on Apex upgradability I’ve got that option eventually.
Admittedly, this combination of price increases, new product rollout, setting a process for these upgrades, mixed with these representation changes in the US will be interesting to see in a few weeks.
Here’s hoping the same is true in the US. I love being wrong about some things 
