Bartok or Lina?

Ahem is not available in the neck of the woods I live in :wink:

Did you?

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I have to agree.

I tried the Susvara with a loan Bartok and didnā€™t like them, despite their reputation. I found using Expanse with them sounded worse still, yet (now this is available on the Rossini) I love how this sounds on the Stax headphones.

I now suspect this was purely an issue with the demands they placed on the Barok and can believe the Lina works well with them.

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My Lina headamp is fed by my Rossini Apex DAC (+ clock), 6V out into the Lina, through solid silver XLR cables. It sounds magnificent, and there is real synergy between them. My Susvara and Abyss 1266 TC sound better than ever.

I did try several TOTL other headamps (in the shop, no home demo available, no Rossini but just Lina source) and the Lina amp was way ahead. After purchase, at home in my system, this was even more so. Enleum, Niimbus, ElevenXIAudio did sound great, Riviera Labs even better, but to my taste the Lina headamp was the winner.

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Iā€™m glad, thereā€™s nothing like living in nirvana :slight_smile: I feel Iā€™m getting closeā€¦

Hi, I have Susvara with my Lina stack and also 1266 AB. Both work terrific. Susvara i originally got with a Bartok. It did not work well at all. With the Lina stack, plenty of headroom barely get passed 1"oclock on the volume

I did compare the full Lina stack to my old Dave and Oor. The amp almost kept me from getting the Lina. Ended up getting a Rossini, but I found the Oor much better. Then again, iā€™m not a fan of Susvara in general, but the Oor was the only amp that made me see why people like it. And I was also using 6v out of the Lina. Iā€™m still using 6v with the Stealth and Raal Ca-1a (which are undisputedly the best headphones out there atm imo). Been waiting for the Zahl Hm1 for almost a year now to replace the Oor, but judging by (some) people finding the Enleum better than the Oor, iā€™m surprised you like the Lina amp so much. I wasnā€™t a fan of the build quality either tbh. The volume wheel was rubbing against the walls of the amp while turning. Not sure if that was a manufacturing issue since it was one of the early units, but not a great look.

I think the build quality is top notch. The Lina amp feels like a tank. The volume wheel turns smoothly and is not supposed to rub, so that certainly is a manufacturing or transport damage issue.

Maybe you want to (re-)read the following? Inside, it is full of innovations. I already liked its sound, before I knew:

I am surprised that you found such a fault. However I have doubts that is was caused in manufacture and wonder who you got the unit from and whether something had happened to it before it reached you.

The reason why is that dCS is small and each unit is hand built. It is not like big electronics manufacturer with a production conveyor belt. They make around 300 units per month. That isnā€™t 300 Linas but 300 total of everything.Not only is someone in charge of the individual unit during construction but it then it has to pass a number of tests to ensure it works correctly. Most relevant to your issue is the fact it goes through a pretty rigorous sign off procedure being listened to then inspected by three persons who are not part of the construction team who built it.

Now maybe they have changed since I last looked but I have no information that this is so. Further the dealer should have dealt with this and fixed or replaced the unit. What happened?

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Long story short, the unit was send directly from dCS to my dealer (who was considering becoming a dCS dealer specifically so I could get the stack from them). My dealer was kind enough to let me hear it before they did, so I was the one to actually unbox the units first. I mentioned to him that it did not look like a brand new stack, and were most likely auditioned before. Everything was perfect, but no stickers on the displays (I assume there would be), etc. I had the stack for about a week to audition before a private event was hosted with potential buyers and friends or the dealer. Everyone was pretty unanimously underwhelmed with the amp (and stack in general compared to a mDave + Other amps on display), and as such, the dealer chose not to carry it. This was end last summer, or September.
I always said the Lina +clock combo is great, but the amp is doing them a disservice. No one else bothered to audition the dac with other amps. Again, I didnā€™t find it BAD per se. Just vastly overpriced and underperforming for the specific headphones it was tested with. Susvara, He1000se, LCD-5. People found the best synergy with Meze Elite, which are not that hard to drive, and which have been my favorite headphones up until recently.

Well, thatā€™s what you were told by a dealer. I can assure you that a brand new unit will, indeed, have clear plastic removable protection cover over the display area. Plus thereā€™s your remark that it did not look brand new. Hmmā€¦

Itā€™s not really a dealer, as much as my dealer . The whole affair of becoming a dCS dealer was initiated to my benefit, but fell through due to the general feedback at the event. He was also expecting the units not to be new, but they were shipped directly from dCS. It also seemed perfectly functional, and besides the cables being used, I could not see anything wrong with the stack.

I am really surprised to read this. Are you sure the right XLR inputs were used (the unbuffered ones ā†’ selected shows the white status indicator on the front)? And were you and/ or your dealer aware of setting the high gain output switch under the front?

Yes, I did my research before. Even though the Abyss guys were raving on about how the buffered ones sounded much better with the Lina dac. Hilarious. I also used the high gain, but not with the Elites, as thatā€™s what I used for most of my audition. Again, nothing wrong with it per se, and at this level weā€™re splitting hairs anyway. Same way I found the Lina dac and clock much better than Dave, and the Rossini and clock better than the Lina and clock. I could maybe see it at half the price, but I also understand thereā€™s the pedigree to take into account.
The fact that I found the Oor such an upgrade over it prompted me to place an order for the HM1 even before deciding on buying the Lina, which later ended up being the Rossini.

Still I think something was wrong with your unit. Your assessment of ā€œunderperformingā€ and mine as ā€œstellarā€ have too much light between them.

Well I have a number of friends that have heard it at Munich and other places that felt the same way, including some reviewers I wonā€™t name.

Just to chime in here without any intention of disparaging dCS - my findings with the Bartok were similar to Adrian. When Bartok was released I decided to treat myself and purchase one for my headphone only system. My main system is a Naim 552/500 fronted by a Linn LP12 and a Klimax DS which has been with me since 2011 (dutifully upgraded to each new spec.).

My initial listening to the Bartok HA vs. my Linn with an external HeadAmp GSX MK2 left me concluding the Linn was significantly better. My dealer, a long time Naim and Linn expert, was rather surprised with the results and after some discussion asked me to perform a new test. He wanted me to bypass the Bartokā€™s internal amplifier and make a new comparison between the Bartok/HeadAmp GSX MK2 vs. Linn KDS/HeadAmp GSX MK2.

Guess what - the Bartok was now nipping right at the Linnā€™s heels - at almost half the price. That is want gave me the incentive to shift the Bartok back to the dealer and move up to a Rossini+Clock - which replaced the Linn in my 2 channel Naim system. The Linn is now relegated to the headphone stack.

End conclusion - the internal dCS headphone amplifier (in my case Bartok), while impressive for a first attempt, was holding back the Bartok.

Your mileage may vary

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Why?

Not everyone on planet earth thinks that dCS makes the best equipment, or outperforms all other companies, all of the time.

@Adrian seems to be very thoughtful in his process and review. That doesnā€™t mean there was a problem in the unit he tested. Further, unless I am mistaken, the Bartok head amp was the first time dCS ever released an amp. Why should one think this first attempt would outperform other companies who have focused on that segment for years?

Iā€™m glad to hear these other perspectives, especially as they seem thoughtful and well-considered.

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Adrian and I were discussing the Lina headamp, not the one in the Bartok HDAC.

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As far as I know, the consensus is that it is a vast improvement over the Bartok, but that was underwhelming to begin with in absolute performance, but made sense at the launch price.
Nothing against dCS here. No matter how good your engineers, itā€™s a bit of a different ball game and designing a product is always an iterative process.
From a business standpoint, it would have made more sense to offer the headamp at a significant discount when buying a full Lina stack. That wouldā€™ve lowered the barrier to entry in the dCS world and allowed them to capture more of the market.
For me it was an easy decision to forego the Lina entirely because of the headamp (and overall size of the stack) and just go with an ex demo Rossini and Clock for a similar cost to the Lina. Had I not tested the Lina and Clock with another amp, I wouldā€™ve never joined the dCS club and kept on believing Rob Watts that his approach is the best thing since toast :slight_smile:
Echo chambers work to a disturbing degree, which is why I value contradicting opinions. Also, who cares if the Lina amp is not the best at driving Susvara and Stealth (main complaints people had), if youā€™re rocking an Elite for example. And how much do you really care about that last %? I see a case for valuing the aesthetics over that. If the value proposition wouldā€™ve made more sense to me.

I think the Bartok for Lina comparison is horses for courses. Personally I listen with Senn HD800s. The Bartok drives them with authority. I would expect the Lina is a much better amp for some of the harder to drive planars.

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