New Member New System

Newbie here but been lurking on and off. I’m in the process of building a new system after a fair bit of auditioning last year. I heard Bartok with Naim 252 / Nap 300DR, Kudos Titan 606s and thought it sounded glorious. Thing is I’m not interested in vinyl and only want a streaming system. (Can you tell where this is headed :slightly_smiling_face:). I’ve read a lot of the posts about running without pre, especially @Dunc , and I really don’t want to buy a pre for one source. Proposed system then is Bartok to Nap300 to 606s - I’m not preconditioned to the Naim sound, so hope this is a flyer. Ps rightly or wrongly I already have the 300dr and the 606s waiting here for there new partners.


Hi and welcome.
All i can day is try it, as you know i have and my 552dr isn’t going back in between my vivaldi and amp.
Obviously i have the apex version now and this is probably helping alot, as i did try my non apex rossini a few years ago, and that was very close, and in the end i went with my pre.

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Thanks - will do. What cable do you use between you Vivaldi and your 500DR?

I made my own up, its only 2 wires per cable, so very easy to do really.
If you get stuck i could make you a pair up

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Thanks appreciate the kind offer. I think I may be ok but will shout if necessary.

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Its not difficult, just need to get the wires right amp end, as they are wired differently. But it shows how on the back off the amp

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The impedance match of the Bartok and Nap300 is within Bartok specification. I don’t believe the NAP300 has adjustable gain so the question will be how well one of the four output voltages matches with the amp and speakers to put you in the zero to very low bit loss range of the volume control on the Bartok (-10 to -30db). I think it is likely to work well.

In the light of he topic of your posting I thought that I ought to point out that the input impedance of the amp will not have much bearing on how loud it will be or where you need to set the Bartok volume control. It really applies more in respect of the linearity of the transfer of the signal i.e . frequency response. Given the low output impedance of the Bartok and the high input impedance of the Naim amp there will be no issue in respect to electrical matching regarding this.

The figure that you might be more interested in initially regarding volume is the voltage sensitivity of the input on the amp which the good folks down in Salisbury do not supply on their website. If you exceed the input sensitivity of the amp and the maximum voltage specified by the manufacturer it will be louder but more distorted.

Very important to the subject of volume setting with direct connection ( or anything else) is how loud you want to listen, the sensitivity of your loudspeakers and the size of your room. So you will have to find out in practice.

This is why I suggest that even though input impedance of amp is in spec, it still may not be a good match for volume. Since input sensitivity of amp is unspecified it is hard to judge fit.

Thanks gents - much appreciated.

I’m now on 252/300dr with Rossini Apex, previously with Bartok. I haven’t tried feeding the Bartok directly to 300dr by skipping the 252 but with other configurations that I have tried, the existence of the pre amp yielded better results (sounded more fulsome/wholesome IMO)

The other configurations I have tried were Threshold SA/3, with a Sid smith marantz 7 pre/music first passive pre. Bartok direct with SA3 gave very clean and crisp sound but slotting back the pre sounded much more musical. However cables and speakers yielded great variance on performance.

Think it’s better for you to source a pair of suitable interconnect for the 300 and try

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I think that’s the thing to do. I’m coming at things from a different perspective to most who seem to have tried this though (I think) - in that I have heard it at audition with the 252, but I haven’t lived with it at home, with a pre in the system. My thinking therefore is - try it , if I like what I hear, go for it - then in the future I could always introduce a pre and see whether any perceived change is worth the outlay. So adding in a 252/Supercap, even at exdemo prices at the moment still likely 9K gbp, would have to have a significant and gratifying effect on the sound to warrant the additional outlay. I can see how people who have lived with the pre in the system, and then take it out to try, find that they want to get back to the sound they are used to though.

Bartok dimensions: dCS site says 430mm deep which might be a stretch for my current rack. Anyone know the dimension from front of feet at the front to back of the feet at back. In other words what shelf depth can I get away with? Thanks.

I think someone with a Bartok will need to measure it for you. The racking space required (and BTW 430mm depth is correct for the overall box depth) must also take account of the cable connectors which will stick out from the rear of the box when installed. Whether or not you have the room for this will depend upon your individual circumstances but do not overlook it.

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Thanks - plenty of the room at the back, it’s just the footprint on the shelf I need.

I think it’s about 340mm

Many thanks


Hello Marq, Did you end up getting a Bartok? I’m in the same boat as you re the shelf depth. Were you able to measure its feet? I only have 40cm of shelf depth to work with so I wanted to make sure myself.

Measured the feet on my Bartók and it looks like about 34.5cm front-to-back.

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Thanks for confirming! :pray: Much appreciated.