What a great forum, been diving in for the last few weeks.
Just got myself a 2nd hand Rossini and Master clock combo(non apex at the moment). It is providing great results compared to what I have experienced in the past. I am trying to to develop my digital source chain to something (in my ears) extraordinary
With no plan to add an external source signal to the Rossini I am considering to have a singel clocked audioswitch solely for ethernet connection to the Rossini. I see several audio switches now coming with external clock options, but not many with Wordclock synchronisation. My fiber network inlet is in my office and on a seperate electric outlet. My idea is to use a Melco S100 as a receiver from my router (RJ45 in) and convert to SFP and send it to another audioswitch, with SFP input connected in my audio circuit and from there to the Rossini.
The idea is to obtain galvanic isolation to the audiosystem and a switch that I can sync to the masterclock.
My system is on its own electrical circuit and all components are linked with the same star-earth loop.
Does anyone know of a switch that has SFP out and can successfully be synced to the wordclock?
I’m not sure of the benefit to sync the switch to the clock, but maintaining the galvanic isolation is a must. Once I did that test with a cheap tp-link converter earlier it was no going back to rj45 connection to the router.
External Clock synchronization to any consumer Ethernet Switch is pretty useless because the actual Ethernet chipsets (from the likes of Broadcom, MediaTek, Marvell, TI etc.) are internally clocked with a 25MHz Crystal.
Any external 10MHz or 44.1kHz Word Reference clock would need to be internally multiplied/divided into the correct frequency - that’s typically accomplished via cheap clock-multiplier/divider chips with poor tolerances. Thus negating any actual benefit from an external clock.
So, don’t waste your time/money looking for “Audiophile” Ethernet Switches that support an external reference Clock.
As for Switches with SFPs for galvanic isolation, there are plenty to chose from. Search the forum for “SFP”, lots of threads on the topic.
Further to @Anupc and his excellent advice that it would not make any difference anyway, your comment needs some further attention:
There are a number of units from various manufacturers currently that have master clock inputs. These seem to mostly be a fashion trend.
The tern master clock is normally used to describe a 10mHz clock. However Rossini requires a wordclock i.e. providing audio sample rate frequencies 44.1kHz <384 kHz. Rossini not only requires a wrodclock but one with an impedance of 75 ohms. Perhaps what you have bought provides both types of clock ?
If you are actually referring to having a Rossini wordclock then this will not provide a 10mHz output anyway. A Rossini clock also provides dual outputs i.e. 44.1 and 48kHz based frequencies simultaneously. This is required to provide automatic switching to the correct frequency for the incoming signal. Of great help when streaming from services such as Qobuz or Tidal.
Yes, that is what I have heard from other sources as well. But I was still intrigued and thought to ask in this forum. Seems to be many knowledgeable people here and thats rarely a bad thing.
My network line is still in development, the Melco is the endpoint today, so in this process i was wondering about the possible benefits. And seeing my Master clock has en extra syncpoint which is default 44.1 I figured it might be a benefit to sync a switch as well.
Without worrying about a syncoption there is a plethora of switches possible that can take the SFP from my Melco.
I was trying to refer to the dCS Master clock(maybe I was unclear) and precisely what you mention is the reason I asked here. This is my first setup with an external clock, and I’m delighted with the result and just trying to maximise the possible benefits. My experience in searching has been that most of the switches out there do not match with the Wordclock.
I figured it would be fun to try and might give a result. It seems that is not likely.
On the other hand, I dont see that it will hurt and being on the hunt for a second switch, if it also has the ability to sync with a Wordclock that can(or not…) be a benefit.
Welcome to the forum! Just to add to what Anup and Pete have already said, all four signal pairs on our network input are properly galvanically isolated so the only part of an ethernet cable that can break that isolation is the shield (in the case of a shielded cable with metal connectors). For this reason we recommend an unshielded cable, designated “UTP”, for the final “hop” from the switch to your DAC. Using such a cable will ensure full galvanic isolation.
Fiber media converters, as well as being an expensive way to provide galvanic isolation (which will only actually be of any benefit if your switch has a noisy ground plane) will increase network complexity and can increase network jitter. This is why we have thus far never included an SFP receptacle on our network enabled products.
Anup has addressed your question about re-clocking ethernet switches.
FWIW, my own suggestion would be to enjoy your new Rossini and save your money for an Apex upgrade somewhere down the line. Preferably when you’ve become fully acclimatized to the sound without it, you will appreciate it all the more.
Since I use one, I can recommend trying an Innuos PhoenixNet, experience it and decide yourself. I think digital audio is way more than a DAC when content are delivered via Internet.
Hi Harald ,
I have a Rossini player apex and master clock and also the s100 melco switch . From the wall I run an inexpensive Ethernet cable into the melco switch . From the melco switch I run an sfp cable into the sfp port of a melco n1s38 server / streamer and then from the n1s38 I run a cheap unshielded cat5 Ethernet cable into the Rossini apex . I’m very happy with the results . Once you have become more accustomed to the sound , try different bnc cables between the DAC and clock . I noticed an improvement moving from the stock bnc cables to apogee wyde eye . And then as Andrew suggests , try and upgrade to apex . Enjoy !
I apologise up front if I’m not coming over clear. Trying my best in English​.
Really appreciate the answers and engagement you guys give this.
Im starting to be a bit uncertain here. My understanding was also that the dCS is isolated. My challenge is, in my opinion, how I get the signal to the Rossini.
The reason for my wish to create the galvanic isolation is precisely that. Not towards the Rossini, but because where my internet(fiber) comes into my house. My audio system is connected on its own powercircuit with its own ground (as of the moment also a star ground connecting all components and speakersj). My aim is to not have any other potential ground noise spilling over. My internet (modem+router/switch+++) are situated in our office. There I convert 1 output from the router to fiber and send it to my receiving switch(Melco S100) in my audio system, to avoid any possible ground leakage over to the audio circuit. That conversion has been successful and gave me a lower perceived noise floor.
So thats where I started to think putting the Melco switch on the office side and use its SFP output to another audio switch (and here was my question regarding clock which has been answered) with SFP input and then to the Rossini.
If I go directly from the router (with rj45) to the Melco switch without the conversion(I just tested) i get a lot more noise introduced and do not experience that as a good option.
I might have a lot of inherent noise on my office side, but that is to a big degree something I have to live with. I’m trying to find the best way to get the signal as clean as possible over to the audio side.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I will upgrade the stock cables(I have a pair of Heimdall2 i will try eventually)
The upgrade to the Rossini was a big move. I used to come from an Auralic G2.1 into my Gryphon Diablo 300 dac. I tried several options, on top of what I hadm when I decided it was time to make a move. Burmester Musiccenter 111, Lumin X2 and a Matrix Audio stack. The Rossini with Master clock was decided within seconds of turning it on. So extremely happy with the move.
The apex upgrade will be set in motion, I just want to familiarise myself with the 2.0 for a few months so I can properly enjoy the upgrade. I am grateful I got the opportunity to get my hands on this stack and, at the moment, I cant see myself wishing for much more.
Please don’t fall into the trap of over-thinking this because it’s quite simple. The only way ground plane noise can enter your DAC through the network input is via a galvanic connection, which with our products can only happen via the shield of a shielded ethernet cable. So regardless of where it is coming from in your network, an unshielded ethernet cable between the last switch and the Rossini will block any ground plane noise just as effectively as a fiber connection..
.